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Radio Program available at http://media.csosa.gov/podcast/audio/2013/09/domestic-violence-problem-solving-courts-superior-court-district-columbia-dc-public-safety-radio/
[Audio Begins]
Len Sipes: From the nation’s capital, this is DC Public Safety. I’m your host, Leonard Sipes, back at our microphones after being off for most of the month of August. We appreciate your asking where. We’ve been off on vacation and a variety of other assignments. Back to our fall schedule. We have an exciting program today, Ladies and Gentlemen. Domestic Violence Courts, Problem Solving Courts. At our microphones is Judge Jose Lopez. He is the presiding judge of the Domestic Violence Unit Superior Court of the District of Columbia – www.dccourts.gov. Follow them on Twitter, Facebook and YouTube – www.dccourts.gov. Judge Jose Lopez, presiding judge of the Domestic Violence Unit, welcome to DC Public Safety.
Judge Lopez: Well, thank you, thank you for having me and greetings everyone.
Len Sipes: I really do appreciate you being here, because domestic violence, I think, is extraordinarily important to me and to everybody listening to this program today. Throughout my entire criminal justice career, I cannot think of anything more destructive, anything more damaging, anything more impactful than when I was a former police officer of those cases that I saw that involved cases of domestic violence. They are tragic, they rip apart families, they damage the children, and you have to preside over these cases every day.
Judge Lopez: Yes, I do. And the only thing I can add to what you say is that I get to see these people every day – I get to see their faces and their tears and it’s no easy matter.
Len Sipes: I cannot imagine a more troublesome topic, because, I dealt with them for 45 minutes. I dealt with them for a half an hour until we either arrested them – and in the old days we didn’t arrest them at all. 90% of the time, we arrested the male, but did not arrest the woman. The vast majority of cases the woman was the victim of domestic violence. But again, you see these cases not just in terms of half an hour increments or 45 minute increments; you see them over the course of hours and over the course of days and over the course of weeks and months.
Judge Lopez: That is correct. In fact, I’m in my 5th year being the presiding judge of the Domestic Violence Unit. And it is a very difficult and extremely challenged situation because in this kind of situation, there are no winners. They all are losers. And so every time I am confronted with a case, I have to balance things. You know, it’s not simply, as you said, it’s usually the man that is the abuser, but it’s not simply, “Okay, he did it. Let’s put him to jail.” No, that’s not the solution because that family is depending on him financially as well. So I need him to continue to provide for the family but at the same time, finding a way to get him to learn and understand that he must stop that type of behavior. And it’s extremely challenging from that perspective.
Len Sipes: Now give me an overview of the Domestic Violence caseload within the District of Columbia Superior Court.
Judge Lopez: Okay. We are divided in two areas. We have the – what we call the civil side and the criminal side. On the civil side is when the individual victim can just come in and file a case without having to – you have the use of the government – and the criminal case side is when the police arrest somebody or has enough evidence so that there will be a criminal case brought against the individual. On the civil side, we bring in about 4,000 cases per year, on the criminal side, about 3,000 cases per year. Sometimes the same individual may be subjected to both, a criminal case and a civil case.
Len Sipes: 4,000 criminal cases and how many civil cases?
Judge Lopez: 4,000 civil cases –
Len Sipes: 4,000 civil cases?
Judge Lopez: And about 3,000 criminal cases.
Len Sipes: So that’s 7,000 families. 7,000 victims, 7,000 perpetrators in the nation’s capital every single year.
Judge Lopez: Exactly, exactly.
Len Sipes: That’s an immense number.
Judge Lopez: The police report that they get on a daily basis about close to 90 telephone calls a day just on domestic violence cases.
Len Sipes: 90 a day?
Judge Lopez: Yes.
Len Sipes: You know, I can’t, I can’t – the tragedy, the impact of what happens in terms of domestic violence cases – I remember being a cadet when I was riding along with a trooper, a cadet in the Maryland State Police, and it was my first exposure to domestic violence and we rolled up and the woman was beaten with a frying pan and her head was twice its size. And I was shocked, utterly shocked. I mean, I grew up in a household where I didn’t see my parents argue. They took it behind closed doors. To walk into a peer in a domestic violence case with a woman who was beaten with a frying pan was shocking to me, absolutely shocking. As I continued my law enforcement career I come to find that this is not unusual.
Judge Lopez: Exactly. It is a learned behavior and as a learned behavior, it is a culturalized thing and that’s what makes it even more difficult for us to combat the problem, because it’s going to take many years of educating the perpetrators of how to understand relationships and how to deal with relationships from a different perspective. From a sane and safe perspective.
Len Sipes: Now I understand that we are part, partners – my agency, Court Services and Offender Supervision Agency, we are partners with the D.C. Superior Court in terms of providing education and supervision to people who are, who have been adjudicated guilty. They go to courses and we provide them with a certain level of supervision. Is there anybody else that the superior court uses to supervise and provide educational services and counseling to people convicted of domestic violence cases?
Judge Lopez: Your agency is the prime mover and when we need anybody else, your agency will get vendors to provide the necessary services.
Len Sipes: Okay.
Judge Lopez: And let me just add, your agency is one of the most significant players in the success that we have had in domestic violence in the District of Columbia. Unlike many other states, your agency supervises the people that are subject to the restraining orders, to make sure that they are complying and following up on the orders and if they do not, then the agency reports back to the judge. So it’s a very significant partner in our battle with domestic violence.
Len Sipes: Okay, tell me about protection orders. There’s a lot of confusion in terms of protection orders. At what point does the individual, the victim, which again, in 90% of the cases is a woman, at what point is she eligible for a protection order?
Judge Lopez: She’s eligible for protection order if the perpetrator commits what we call an interfamily offense. And interfamily offense is any action that ordinarily will be a criminal act upon the person of that individual, but we don’t treat it as a criminal act from the perspective that it’s a civil case and therefore the standard is not as high. So if she’s able to report that he either assaulted, threatened, harassed or stalked her, and if she’s able to prove that, then she is eligible for a protection order.
Len Sipes: Now protection orders carry their own degree of controversy, even though we put many of our offenders who have protection orders, who are under our supervision for domestic violence cases and we put them on global positioning system, tracking, GPS tracking. It’s a porous system. I mean, it is – there’s nothing foolproof about community supervision, as you well know. So anybody who’s threatened or has been a victim of violence can get a protection order and what do those protection orders say?
Judge Lopez: Okay, the protection order basically say that you shall not harass, assault, threaten or stalk or injure the individual and also in addition to that, the protection order provides, if necessary, that the individual, if they live together, the abuser has to leave the household, maybe required to pay child support, and we provide for visitation if there are children involved.
Len Sipes: Right. Now is a protection order the same as a stay-away order?
Judge Lopez: It’s the same as a stay-away order. Exactly.
Len Sipes: Okay. Now, what does this process do for you personally? What sort of toll does it take on you personally? Again, I found it immensely impactful when I, as a young police officer, many decades ago, went into domestic violence cases, family cases. I found it just extraordinarily life-changing to see people who supposedly are in love, or were in love, do what they do to each other. Now you see it in terms of the kids, you see it in terms of the victim, you see it in terms of the perpetrator, you have to explore all aspects of what happens in their lives, what happened in their life, what their lives could be in the future. That’s got to take a huge toll on you and the other judges.
Judge Lopez: It gives me a vision of what humanity is in such a way that I had never imagined. The stress level is very high while I’m in the court room dealing with the challenges of these cases. The reason why it hasn’t taken a toll on me in a way that I can say physically or emotionally has affected me is because I take it as a challenge, I take it as a necessity for the service that has to be performed for the community and most of all, I’m very pleased that I have that opportunity to solve some of these problems and help some of these individuals.
Len Sipes: D.C., the Superior Court System in the District of Columbia is famous for its problem solving courts. We’ve had a variety of judges before our microphones, talking about the problem solving efforts under the superior court in the District of Columbia. You all are very active in terms of being involved in a wide variety of issues. So this falls under the category of problem solving courts, does it not?
Judge Lopez: Oh yes it does. And it is something that we continue to explore, because we have come to learn that the age old approach to solving crimes – that is, punishment, crime-punishment, has not been working and that we need to understand what is the underlying problem of the crime. And we’ve come to learn that drugs, mental health issues are significant factors in these situations. And so we have extended programs to mental health court. We have the drug court, and we have the community court concept, which is continually expanding in the criminal cases. And it’s beginning to show some good results.
Len Sipes: Now, the interesting thing is is that in a lot of these courts there have been very interesting results and in a lot of these courts there have been reductions in recidivism. What lessons – now there’s going to be court administrators and people from the executive branch of government, students, professors, but particularly people in the criminal justice system – they’re going to listen to this program and they’re going to say, “What lessons are there from the experience here in the District of Columbia? What lessons are there in terms of dealing with domestic violence?” Because this issue is not a D.C. issue – this issue is in every judicial jurisdiction in the United States and probably in every judicial jurisdiction in the world.
Judge Lopez: You’re correct. I think just last week I finished giving a talk by WebX to a bunch of judges in Scotland about the same issue. So you’re correct there. But in terms of what lessons, I’ve learned from some studies that in 80% of the cases, where we have a protection order, there has been a reduction in violence. Of course there’s still that 20 that we have to deal with, but also in lethality, people that have died – are killed because of domestic violence, I mean, our statistics show that back in 2009 we had 21 homicides. In 2010 it was 12, 2011, it came down to 13. 2012, I’m sorry, 2012 was 6 homicides. So the homicide rate has been going down. We don’t have any clear explanation but we hope to take some credit from that based on our effort in Domestic Violence Court.
Len Sipes: And that’s a phenomenal, phenomenal finding. So what we’re talking about is a dramatic reduction in domestic violence related deaths in the District of Columbia and I’m assuming that virtually all of these cases at one point or another made their way through the Superior Court?
Judge Lopez: Yes, I’m assuming that they did.
Len Sipes: Right.
Judge Lopez: Now, one of the clear things about it, and just deviating a little bit is that when the individual comes to the court for the civil protection order, the first thing they do is they go through the intake center. What we have – it’s like a one-stop shop, where they talk to the advocates of domestic violence, we have the police there, we have housing advocates there, mental health advocates there, so that when the individual come, they get a full panoply of other services that may be necessary in order for the safety of the individual.
Len Sipes: Tell me about the substance abuse backgrounds. You mentioned that a little while ago, because you’ve had various problem solving courts within the Superior Court that you can get these people involved in: mental health, substance abuse. I’m going to guess and say that the vast majority of these domestic violence cases that come to the Superior Court, the vast majority of the cases that come to the attention of Law Enforcement, that the perpetrator at the time was using drugs or alcohol.
Judge Lopez: Well, I cannot say exactly in how many at the time was using drugs and alcohol, but one thing we have learned is that drugs, alcohol, mental health issue are just about always involved with these perpetrators.
Len Sipes: Right. And we have economic stressors. I mean, we’ve had the recession, we’ve had difficulty in terms of economics, you add drugs and alcohol to that mix, you add children to that mix and it becomes volatile at a certain point. It becomes really, really, really difficult in terms of a marriage where that perpetrator steps over the line and starts harming their partner or threatening their partner.
Judge Lopez: Oh, sure, I mean we have cases, for example that the fight between the partners started out in the shelter that they both lived in, because they were homeless. We have a number of homeless people that have problems complying with some of our orders because they are homeless.
Len Sipes: And all of that adds to the stress, all of that adds to the difficulty.
Judge Lopez: Exactly. Which of course also takes me to another situation and that is that we have to be very sensitive about these people and train our staff to be sensitive to all these things, so that when somebody walks into the courtroom with a negative attitude, arguing and so forth, we need to be understanding that this is not a personal thing, it’s the stress that they’re going through. And it is very real.
Len Sipes: And there’s nothing more stressful than the breakup of a marriage or the potential breakup of a marriage or civil union. We’re going to get on to the larger question as to can problem solving courts, can domestic violence courts actually help the people cope? I mean, is it a matter of separating them and giving them instructions in terms of how to work out their issues so that they can live their lives separately or live their lives together? Do domestic violence courts, problem solving courts, do they help reunite families? But before that I want to reintroduce our guest, Jose Lopez. He is the presiding judge of the Domestic Violence Unit for the Superior Court of the District of Columbia. www.dccourts.gov. Follow DC Courts on Twitter, Facebook and YouTube. Your Honor, let me go back to that question; is it a point where – I know that our parole and probation agents, what other people throughout the country call parole and probation agents, what we call community supervision officers here in the District of Columbia, I know that they work very hard with people in courses and know they work very hard and they use the [PH 00:15:58] Deluth model, and they try to get them to deal with the fact that you cannot use violence to deal with day to day difficulties, that there are other ways of solving your problems, there are other ways of approaching marital problems, civil union problems, without resorting to violence. What I want to ask you is that, do any of these individuals really come to an epiphany and that improves their marriage and at the end of the period of supervision everybody walks out happy? Do you find that happens?
Judge Lopez: Well, it is a very difficult challenge and there are studies out there that are telling us that there is a positive result from some of the studies. The programs are all very new, so we don’t have conclusive studies, but we have some studies that show that as many as 50% of the cases where they go through these programs, there is an improvement on the individuals and they don’t, they’re not recidivist or repeated offenders. However, I believe that one of the things is that this is a learned behavior that is going to take a lot of changes in the culture before we can say we’ve made it. We have a long way to go, but one of the things I always think about when this question is asked is, looking at other behaviors that we had in the past that we had to reeducate society, such simple things as wearing seatbelts and such simple things as not driving under the influence –
Len Sipes: Right.
Judge Lopez: At one time it was, you know, taken for granted. But now people do it and it has taken a lot of education on the part of society to get people to understand, to see the consequences. And so I think that’s going to happen with domestic violence.
Len Sipes: I’m glad you really, I’m glad you brought that up, because this is not an issue for the criminal justice system necessarily. It’s not an issue for the judiciary. This is a societal issue. I mean, there’s a certain point where we have said we need to wear seatbelts. There’s a certain point where we have now said that there’s an agreement within our larger society that you shouldn’t drink and drive. There is now a growing sense that you have no right to abuse physically, psychologically, emotionally, sexually – you have no right to abuse your partner or your wife or your husband.
Judge Lopez: Yeah. As we learn the damages and consequences of these things and the society jumps on board to prevent the issue, then you see results and I think that’s what’s happening to us now. The society’s jumping on board with addressing the issue of domestic violence.
Len Sipes: So let me go back to the other issue about the reunification of families. There are people who go through this process, they are arrested, they go to court, they go to counseling, they have a protection order in some cases where they go through this process and they do, you know, understand that you cannot hit, you cannot threaten your partner. You cannot threaten your wife. You cannot threaten your husband. And they walk out of that court, as you said, I think about 50%, walk out of that court never to be seen again. That’s a 50% reduction in recidivism. That’s one of the best reductions in recidivism of any class of offenders that we supervise. That’s one of the best I’ve ever heard.
Judge Lopez: Yes, but still we got that other 50% that we have to focus upon.
Len Sipes: Sure, but I mean, in my world of reducing recidivism by 15% or 20% is considered spectacular. Reducing recidivism by 50% is considered almost unheard of. So I mean right there you’re – you’ve got a really good rate of return.
Judge Lopez: I’m very pleased with that, don’t get me wrong. However, we need to address it from different angles so that we can reduce it even more. For example, one thing we’re dealing with now is the young teenagers. There is a lot of domestic violence there that they have learned and we have not been able to fully address that situation and for them, when we interview them, the domestic violence concept that we truly understand, to them that’s the normal in relationships. You know, to slap her when she disrespected you, well, she disrespected you. And that’s the normal. To give you a cell phone so he can track you down wherever you go – “Well, he gave me the cell phone, he cares about me.” And so we have it coming from other angles that we have not fully addressed.
Len Sipes: What is – I guess, right or wrong with us, this is a terribly unfair question, but I mean, it is really interesting that we do have individuals who believe that they have the right to strike either their children or their spouses or significant others. I mean, where does that come from?
Judge Lopez: It’s a learned behavior. It’s that simple. You were taught that you’re the man of the house, and you are to be respected and if you’re not respected then you take the measure that were taken to control you, you take the same measure to control her.
Len Sipes: Hmm. I have a wife that if you ever threatened or hurt her, she’d probably end up killing you. So I’ve never had to worry about that because I have a rather strong-willed wife. But I just fine it amazing. So let’s get back to the kids in all of this, because the true tragedy of this is not just the victim, not just the person involved in inflicting the pain, but oftentimes you would walk, I would walk in to cases where you would have the husband and wife, they’re going at each other, somebody hit the other person, somebody’s threatening the other person and somehow, some way, you’ve got to deal with that set of circumstances, but there are four or five other kids in the same room. And you’re saying to yourself, “How do I solve this? How do I take this person into custody, how do I protect the woman involved and how do I do it without inflicting further damage to these four or five children?” Children are an integral part of domestic violence arrangements, domestic violence hearings, correct?
Judge Lopez: Oh, that is so true. And that, of course, is another complexity there, because on the one hand, the children need both parents. On the other hand, the arguing, the bickering, the fighting is also creating a damaging situation for the children. And we have to tailor the visitation concept very carefully because of that as well as, for example in some cases where we have a supervised visitation center where the visitations have to be supervised in such a way that one parent does not see the other parent when the child is exchanged at the center and there is a social worker there while the visit is taking place to make sure that the visiting parent is not maligning the other parent that’s not there. So we take all kinds of measures to make sure that somehow we try to make it work as best as possible under the circumstances.
Len Sipes: Do we have any counseling for the kids involved?
Judge Lopez: We have counseling through the Social Services, they are counseling for the kids. There are community collaboratives that are located in various areas of the community that the children can be taken for counseling.
Len Sipes: You know, what you’re describing is probably one of the best, well – and I’m not saying this because you’re a judge and that you’re sitting across from me and my agency works with your agency on a day to day basis. I’m saying it because it’s true. This is one of the best structured, well thought out, comprehensive domestic violence programs in the country. How did that come about?
Judge Lopez: Community collaboration. Before we even had the program, when we recognized the problem, the court took the initiative to invite all the stakeholders in the community to discuss how we’re going to address domestic violence and that included the doctors, the social workers, the schools, the hospitals, the clergy, to bring to one table all these groups and to begin to discuss how all of us needed to participate. The doctors needed to understand that they needed to report the problem. The police had to understand that when they saw evidence of domestic violence, they had to make an arrest and not just simply say, “Don’t make too much noise.” The clergy had to learn that it was more than just simply saying, “But you must obey your husband.” You know? All this is took place, dialogue, and we study other areas. We went and we studied in California where there was already a movement on that, we went and visited their domestic violence program and other programs. And we borrow from the best and the best that we could find from them and we have many dedicated people here in the District of Columbia and the support of our chief judges has always been there for these programs, which is extremely valuable, and we’ve been very fortunate.
Len Sipes: So you used community collaboration, you used best practices; you used research to put together this program. And this program’s been in existence how long? I think a couple decades now, right?
Judge Lopez: It’s close to 20 years. I lost track of it because like I said, I was there from the inception, so that takes me to the early ‘90s.
Len Sipes: Now what are your personal perceptions, as we wind down the program? I mean, you know, you’ve been at this for two decades. Most of the people that I talk to about domestic violence in this city, and when I talk to other people about domestic violence throughout the country cite the Superior Court of the District of Columbia. They have great admiration for your program. You’ve seen literally thousands upon thousands of victims, perpetrators, children flow through your various courtrooms with this issue. After 20 years, what’s your gut impression as to where you are? And what you’ve done?
Judge Lopez: Well, my gut impression is that we’ve done a great service to the community. I think we’ve made a lot of changes that sometimes hard to demonstrate by, because the studies are so new at that, but like I said, when you point out to the fact that in 2009, we had 21 homicides related to domestic violence and by 2012 we came down to six homicides, I think that’s something to be proud about and believe that our efforts are making some kind of a difference.
Len Sipes: And there is a clear separation, and I’ve been struggling with this idea throughout the program, between people legally knowing their roles and people sort of knowing the slots that they need to occupy, but going beyond that and going for reunification of families or a true understanding that it’s not right for you to hurt another person, it’s not right for you to threaten another person. So it seems to me that many of the domestic violence courts throughout the country are focused on the legalistic – “you can do this, you can’t do that.” You all seem to be focused on trying to, whether you stay together or don’t stay together, a peaceful resolution within that family in terms of how you deal with each other and how you deal with your children for the rest of your lives. Am I in the ballpark?
Judge Lopez: Look, my focus is the human factor. Once you have committed the crime, then I am looking beyond the punishment concept. I am looking to how are we going to salvage this family? You committed a crime for which I could put you in jail for 180 days, but at the same time, you also have a family that you’re responsible for and I also recognize that one of your problems was either mental health issue or drug issue so I want to address those issues, rather than just simply the law says I can put you away for 180 days. I’m not interested in that, because after 180 days, you going to come right back out to do the same thing.
Len Sipes: And through our agency, Court Services and Offender Supervision Agency, and the resources that we have, that we bring to the table, and between the resources of the superior court and other community agencies out there, again, I just get the sense that the focus is on resolution of a problem, not just a legalistic approach to domestic violence.
Judge Lopez: And that’s exactly why we call them problem solving court.
Len Sipes: Yes, right. And that’s one of the reasons why, again, that D.C. has layer upon layer upon layer of problem solving courts, because they take that approach. It’s just not a legalistic, “This is what you do, this is the requirements” but it’s how, as human beings, can you all learn to live with each other in such a way as not to inflict further harm upon each other or further harm upon the kids.
Judge Lopez: Exactly, and as a result of that, it has taken a twist for the judiciary, for judges to begin to look at themselves not just simply as applying the law, but more like, “we have to look at the underlying problem and see how we can help the family with the underlying problem, while at the same time applying the law.”
Len Sipes: Right. And for those of us in the larger criminal justice system, from the executive branch – it’s always a lot easier when a judge understands that and a judge wants that, because that forces the rest of us, that moves the rest of us in that direction, don’t you think?
Judge Lopez: Oh yes, but it puts a lot of stress on the judge because no longer do I have the simple answer that I used to have in the past: “You committed the crime, you do the time.” Now I want to look for more, I want to see families united.
Len Sipes: Well, I’m very impressed with the domestic violence courts and the problem solving courts within the District of Columbia. Ladies and Gentlemen, our guest today has been Judge Jose Lopez. He is the presiding judge of the Domestic Violence Units for the Superior Court of the District of Columbia. The website address is www.dccourts.gov. www.dccourts.gov. Follow them on Twitter and Facebook and YouTube and thanks to Leah [PH 00:29:45] Gerwitz for putting together this program, and thank you, ladies and gentlemen, for listening. We appreciate your comments. We even appreciate your criticisms and we want everybody to have themselves a very, very pleasant day.
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