http:\/\/media.csosa.gov\/podcast\/audio\/2012\/04\/successful-probation-practices-in-travis-county-tx\/<\/a><\/p>\n[Audio Begins]<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 From the nation\u2019s capital, this is DC Public Safety.\u00a0 I am your host Leonard Sipes.\u00a0 Ladies and gentlemen, the program today is about successful probation practices in Travis County, Texas, where they have reduced recidivism over the course of the last six years, and have saved taxpayers in excess of $21 million.\u00a0 Our guest today is Dr. Geraldine Nagy, Director, Travis County Community Supervision and Corrections.\u00a0 Geraldine, welcome to DC Public Safety.<\/p>\n
Dr. Geraldine Nagy:\u00a0 Thank you, I\u2019m glad to be here.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 Okay, Geraldine, this is a program that has received a lot of publicity.\u00a0 There are a lot of notices in the literature that I read, the people that I talk to about the wonderful things that you have done down there in Travis County, Texas, in terms of probation.\u00a0 In essence, one of the things we said before hitting the recording button is that you\u2019ve basically taken the probation department and have gone beyond the usual instructions of most probation departments, which is to follow the orders and the mandate of the courts, and what you have done is actually reduced recidivism, which means reducing new criminal offences.\u00a0 You\u2019ve saved taxpayers, literally, tens of millions of dollars.\u00a0 How did you do all that?<\/p>\n
Dr. Geraldine Nagy:\u00a0 Well, it took a lot of people doing a lot of work.\u00a0 But it began with a very honest look at probation, and probation in Travis County, but probation in general, and we decided that our mission in Travis County was not only be to make sure that people complied with their conditions of probation, but we had a responsibility to do what we could to reduce crime in Travis County, Texas, through our interactions with the probationers.\u00a0 So we redefined our role and we expanded our mission and we put numerous changes in place in order to accomplish that.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 Now, you\u2019ve had a 17% reduction in recidivism, and that\u2019s based upon what, new arrest?<\/p>\n
Dr. Geraldine Nagy:\u00a0 That\u2019s new arrest statewide, so it\u2019s any kind of arrest in the state of Texas.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 Okay.<\/p>\n
Dr. Geraldine Nagy:\u00a0 And that\u2019s an [PH] average reduction.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 Okay.\u00a0 And for Travis County, what would be the recidivism rate?\u00a0 Was it still 17%?<\/p>\n
Dr. Geraldine Nagy:\u00a0 The recidivism rate at this point is 24%.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 That\u2019s amazing.\u00a0 That is absolutely amazing.\u00a0 And the fact that you\u2019ve been able to save $21 million in the process.<\/p>\n
Dr. Geraldine Nagy:\u00a0 Yes, you know, I think there are a lot of things that are remarkable about this.\u00a0 I think first of all, it hasn\u2019t required a huge infusion of money into Travis County Probation.\u00a0 We\u2019ve basically, in our processes and cost efficiency, and stay focused on that goal of protecting the public and reducing recidivism, and evaluated everything we did with that goal in mind.\u00a0 And so most of what we\u2019ve been able to do has been a better realization of resource and taking a more focused approach to what we do.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 Now, this whole idea of evidence-based practice, what you did was take a look at the literature, take a look at the research and basically said to the folks when you were hired, I think I can do a better job utilizing the research and bringing evidence-based practices to Travis County, Texas, and I think I can reduce recidivism, and I think I can save taxpayer dollars.\u00a0 What was their reaction to your proposal?<\/p>\n
Dr. Geraldine Nagy:\u00a0 You know, what I found with the probation officers, and the other \u2013 the managers and the leadership here, is that everyone was on the same page with regards to having probation being meaningful and being able to measure the results with measures that mattered to other folks in the community, the judges, the people who live here and things.\u00a0 And so, I didn\u2019t get a lot of resistance from staff.\u00a0 I think the average probation officer back in the older days really had wished, would have wished if they had known, to have this information available so that they could do their jobs better.\u00a0 So I think there was some excitement about new opportunities.\u00a0 So there wasn\u2019t a lot of resistance from staff.\u00a0 It required a lot of education.\u00a0 It required strong leadership throughout our organization.\u00a0 But people were willing to try something new if they thought it was going to make a difference.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 Well, I\u2019ve been in the criminal justice system for 42 years.\u00a0 If somebody, if I was doing the same thing the same way for 20 years, and somebody came along and said, \u201cLeonard, we\u2019re going to try an entirely new way of conducting public affairs,\u201d I would be very anxious. I would say, \u201cOh, my heavens, look.\u00a0 I\u2019ve been doing this for 20 years.\u201d<\/p>\n
Dr. Geraldine Nagy:\u00a0 Yeah, and I\u2019m sure some people felt that way, but, you know, I just felt that it was so important not to diminish what they had been doing.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 Right.<\/p>\n
Dr. Geraldine Nagy:\u00a0 They had been doing what they had been doing quite well.\u00a0 They were serving the courts quite well.\u00a0 So this was not saying what they had done was wrong or unimportant, but they could do more.\u00a0 And that we could reallocate our resources and we could actually reduce their caseloads by being smarter, how we did things, so that they could make a difference with their folks.\u00a0 And so, yeah, I\u2019m sure there was some anxiety, some not knowing, but I think that\u2019s part of making any meaningful change, and people for the most part stuck with it.\u00a0 Our turnover rate has been very low.\u00a0 And I see a big difference in how people relate to their jobs now.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 Can I ask you whether or not, is it your belief that most probation agencies in this country follow your model?\u00a0 My guess would be that most do not.\u00a0 My guess would be that most still follow a very traditional model of basically doing what the courts ask them to do and to follow the mandate of the courts.\u00a0 It\u2019s quite a change to go over to a model that basically said, hey, I\u2019m going to make things dramatically better.<\/p>\n
Dr. Geraldine Nagy:\u00a0 I think there\u2019s a growing interest in evidence-based practices and making changes at the local level.\u00a0 I think there\u2019re some challenges to do that, and so I think what is different from Travis County is we were successful in really, over the course of the years, doing a top to bottom change to bring us into alignment with a broad array of knowledge and research.\u00a0 And I think that required a great deal of planning and doing it in a very methodical way, and that is the [INDISCERNIBLE] which describes the process that we went through, is to give some assistance for people who know what to do, but they aren\u2019t quite sure how to do it.\u00a0 Because it is complex change.\u00a0 That takes time.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 Well, from the list–<\/p>\n
Dr. Geraldine Nagy:\u00a0 There was a lot of interested–<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 Go ahead, please.<\/p>\n
Dr. Geraldine Nagy:\u00a0 Oh, I\u2019m done.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 Okay, just on the list that I\u2019m looking at, it includes so many things in terms of motivational interviewing.\u00a0 I just did a radio show on motivational interviewing, redesigning conditions of supervision, a uniform policy on sanctions, reduced caseloads in the regular units of felony revocations, staffing and review committee, technical violation, court and document of mental health integrated services program.\u00a0 I mean, I can go on and on and on about this list.\u00a0 A reentry drug court, a DWI court for repeat offenders, an absconder unit, web-based interactive workforce, redesign of the sex offender management program, establishing a counseling center for intensive outpatient operations.\u00a0 I mean, enhance job skills training, retooling of job performance measures, that\u2019s a lot, Geraldine.\u00a0 That is just a huge amount of work.<\/p>\n
Dr. Geraldine Nagy:\u00a0 It is a lot.\u00a0 And I think our key was to do a lot of planning upfront, planning the [PH] class, [PH] work through the important steps, because I think the mistake that many people make when they start a significant change is they throw something out without a lot of warning.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 Right.<\/p>\n
Dr. Geraldine Nagy:\u00a0 About why they\u2019re doing it and how it fits the bigger picture.\u00a0 So we\u2019ve really worked on educating folks.\u00a0 We\u2019ve worked on working very closely with our judges, our prosecutors, our defense bar, and we really, you know, one person cannot do this.\u00a0 Even your top administrative team cannot do this.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 Right.<\/p>\n
Dr. Geraldine Nagy:\u00a0 It needs to be leadership at all levels throughout the organization.\u00a0 So we had to develop folks to be able to manage workgroups and produce products, and to work fairly independently.\u00a0 And that took the first year.\u00a0 So there\u2019s some development that has to take place.\u00a0 But the second most critical thing is putting a structure in place to actually implement things and manage the work so that it gets done.\u00a0 And I think that\u2019s what we did here in Travis County, that brought us quite a bit of success much sooner than I expected.\u00a0 So I think that was key.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 You had to sell this to, I would imagine, the court, the county commissioners, local law enforcement, your treatment partners.\u00a0 You had to sell this to lots of different people, correct?<\/p>\n
Dr. Geraldine Nagy:\u00a0 Yes, I think for probably the first year I did 30 or 40 different presentations.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 Wow.<\/p>\n
Dr. Geraldine Nagy:\u00a0 To community groups, to commissioner of court, to the prosecutor\u2019s office, to the county attorney\u2019s office.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 Right.<\/p>\n
Dr. Geraldine Nagy:\u00a0 To commissioners because I felt that what we needed to have is a clear understanding of what we were going to do, why we were going to do it, what I expected the outcomes to be, and to build confidence in our department.\u00a0 Because we are not a county entity.\u00a0 We are a judicial entity, we are funded primarily through state, so I needed to build those alliances and yes, we needed support.\u00a0 We worked very closely with many people.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 Geraldine, what\u2019s the essence of the program?\u00a0 I mean, I just read a long list of the individual initiatives.\u00a0 Some of the individual initiatives that you took on, that you implemented, what is the heart and soul of probation agencies in order for them to be successful, in order for them to have the same results that you\u2019ve had there in Travis County?\u00a0 What\u2019s the secret sauce?\u00a0 What is the heart and soul of it?\u00a0 If you could give an elevator speech in terms of what makes for a successful probation agency, it would be what?<\/p>\n
Dr. Geraldine Nagy:\u00a0 I think it\u2019s working with the local system collaboratively as a whole, and secondly, creating a culture that knows how to make decisions, relies heavily on research and data, and will take an honest look at itself and change what it needs to.\u00a0 And so, our way of doing business is probably the biggest change \u2013 you listed some of the things that we did, but probation is a living dynamic sort of thing and there are always new problems, there are always new issues, and those need to be based on research and evaluation rather than opinion or emotion.\u00a0 And so, we\u2019ve taken a different approach to how we do business.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 Now, in terms of the offender population, you assess them, correct?<\/p>\n
Dr. Geraldine Nagy:\u00a0 Right.\u00a0 Yeah, an assessment is a foundation of effective probation.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 Right.<\/p>\n
Dr. Geraldine Nagy:\u00a0 Apart from what I just said, if you [PH] take one thing, it\u2019s in order to be effective, we must know who we\u2019re dealing with.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 Right.<\/p>\n
Dr. Geraldine Nagy:\u00a0 On an individual level.\u00a0 So we need to know how likely they are to reoffend, we need to know what issues are contributing to their criminal behavior and then we need to develop strategies, either through probation supervision or treatment, just focus on those specific areas.\u00a0 But the foundation is assessment, and the foundation for the courts as well is assessment because they set the conditions of probation.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 Right.<\/p>\n
Dr. Geraldine Nagy:\u00a0 That\u2019s the start.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 Once you have an assessment, what do you do with them?\u00a0 I mean, do you divide them into high risk and low risk, can provide different strategies based upon levels of risk?<\/p>\n
Dr. Geraldine Nagy:\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 If you were to look at the research, it would say one thing that I think cannot be disputed.\u00a0 That is, if you over-supervise, over-treat low risk people, people who have support in their lives, have a lesser criminal history, they\u2019re unlikely to reoffend, then you will do them harm.\u00a0 They are actually more likely to go out and commit a new crime.\u00a0 If you take your high risk person, and you only see them monthly, for example.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 Right.<\/p>\n
Dr. Geraldine Nagy:\u00a0 And send them to a treatment that is not very intensive, you can pretty much expect that they will go out and commit a new crime frequently.\u00a0 So the idea is that we reallocate our resources and sort these [PH] folks, for lack of a better word, so that we know who to spend our time with.\u00a0 So it\u2019s really somewhat like an emergency room.\u00a0 You expect to go in there for people to triage the people.\u00a0 The same thing should happen in a probation department because it really is in some cases life or death for a potential victim in the future.\u00a0 I mean, that might be the rare case, but still, we\u2019re making important decisions here.\u00a0 And so, it\u2019s important to be informed.\u00a0 It\u2019s important to be fully informed and to respond to that.\u00a0 The key, I think, for probation departments, many do assessments, it\u2019s how they\u2019re used by the courts, by the probation officer, at the point that there\u2019s a non-compliance, at the point in deciding should this person get off probation, all of those are key decision making points.\u00a0 So the assessment needs to be utilized at each of those decision points.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 My guest today is Dr. Geraldine Nagy.\u00a0 We\u2019re halfway through the program.\u00a0 Dr. Nagy is Director of Travis County Community Supervision and Corrections, well established within the [INDISCERNIBLE] as having one of the most successful probation programs in the country.\u00a0 A significant reduction in recidivism, a savings to taxpayers of over $21 million and that\u2019s why we have Geraldine at the microphones again today.\u00a0 A high risk offender, Geraldine, has to receive the bulk of the services.\u00a0 The low risk offender, you\u2019re talking about a danger of over-supervising them, that\u2019s something a lot of people have a hard time understanding.\u00a0 So the judge sentences this person to probation, and he\u2019s been in touch with the criminal justice system a couple of times for say, non-violent crimes.\u00a0 He doesn\u2019t have a substance abuse history.\u00a0 Is that the kind of person we\u2019re talking about for low risk?<\/p>\n
Dr. Geraldine Nagy:\u00a0 Yeah.\u00a0 And there\u2019s two types of low risk folks.\u00a0 Some, it\u2019s a situational one-time thing; they\u2019re corrected at the point of arrest.\u00a0 They\u2019re not going to do it again.\u00a0 For those [INDISCERNIBLE] are low, low that we supervise in very large caseloads.\u00a0 Those other low risk folks that do have some issues, maybe some treatment requirements, and so, we put them in treatment, but it would be a lesser intensity treatment than what we would provide for a high risk person who has a longer history.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 I had a judge one time said, \u201cBe careful when you ask for treatment for low risk offenders because if I impose those conditions of treatment, those conditions of treatment are enforceable.\u00a0 And so, the person doesn\u2019t like the program, doesn\u2019t like the group, doesn\u2019t like the facilitator of the group, and the treatment modality doesn\u2019t fit that particular person\u2019s needs, if you come back and tell me that he\u2019s not in compliance, I could possibly send that person back to jail or prison.\u00a0 So be careful what you ask for,\u201d is that what we\u2019re talking about here?<\/p>\n
Dr. Geraldine Nagy:\u00a0 Yeah, and low risk people exactly like you have described have been going to Texas prisons for some time.\u00a0 I mean, our legislative budget board looked at who exactly is going to prison in the state of Texas and there\u2019s a substantial number of low risk people that end up in the state prison.\u00a0 So, yeah, piling on extensive conditions for low risk people puts them at greater risk of being revoked, but it also puts them, if they comply, in situations where they\u2019re interacting with high risk people, but it also interferes with their ability to do the things that makes them low risk, like maintain employment.\u00a0 Do what they need to do with their children and families.\u00a0 So there\u2019s a number of reasons that low risk people need to be supervised less.\u00a0 But the greatest one is if you\u2019re supervising them, you can\u2019t supervise the high risk.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 Right.<\/p>\n
Dr. Geraldine Nagy:\u00a0 At the level that you should.\u00a0 So that really is, when I talk about the allocation of resources, one of the biggest shifts in our department was moving that attention to high risk people, so now, they\u2019re watched more closely, but they also have more requirements.\u00a0 Then there\u2019s that constant interaction to make sure that they\u2019re benefitting from those requirements.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 Now, it\u2019s interesting that well over, I guess, 35 years ago, I remember that when I left law enforcement and went to college, and started studying criminology, there was a book I read many decades ago called Radical Non-Intervention that said exactly that.\u00a0 Be careful of what you do with the low risk offender.\u00a0 Sometimes the best thing you can do is not interact with that person, interact with that person as little as possible.\u00a0 Don\u2019t bring them full bore into the criminal justice system.\u00a0 You\u2019re going to create more problems than you solve.\u00a0 That concept\u2019s been around for decades.<\/p>\n
Dr. Geraldine Nagy:\u00a0 Yeah, you know, not everybody understands the concept because I think not everyone realizes that we have the tools and methods to identify those low risk folks well.\u00a0 And that again, [PH] goes back to assessments.\u00a0 So I often hear people that say, \u201cOh, no, that\u2019s not going to work.\u00a0 What if this one person…?\u201d\u00a0 And the question is, can we do a good job in making those judgments with the tools that we have?<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 Right.<\/p>\n
Dr. Geraldine Nagy:\u00a0 And yes, much better.\u00a0 Much better than we could than we did before, certainly, when we just kind of looked at a person and said, \u201cOh, you look low risk and you look high risk\u201d.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 Right.\u00a0 Right.\u00a0 And using the tools.\u00a0 It\u2019s not perfect.\u00a0 I mean, it\u2019s not 100%, but I\u2019ve been told by people in the field that it does approach 80 \u2013 85% accuracy.<\/p>\n
Dr. Geraldine Nagy:\u00a0 Well, and low risk is not no risk.\u00a0 It\u2019s important for us to recognize that.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 Right.<\/p>\n
Dr. Geraldine Nagy:\u00a0 But still, when you look at the research, over and over and over again, it shows that if you over-supervise or treat these folks, they are more likely to go out and commit crime.\u00a0 In other words, it doesn\u2019t stop them, it makes them more likely to [PH] commit a crime.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 So now you have the resources that focus on the higher risk offenders.\u00a0 Now, they come into contact with your probation officers on a much more frequent basis.\u00a0 They can keep a stronger eye on them and you can get them involved in the programs that they need because there\u2019s a substance abuse history for the bulk of offenders, there are mental health issues for a large percentage of offenders on criminal caseloads, so now you can get them involved in the programs and now you can keep a much better eye on them, and hopefully, through the programs and through the supervisions, lower their recidivism risk.<\/p>\n
Dr. Geraldine Nagy:\u00a0 Right.\u00a0 And we did a lot of training with our officers to build the skills to be able to do that well.\u00a0 You mentioned one of those things, motivational interviewing, which is really a strategy for assisting offenders to break through denial and to make a commitment to action-oriented steps to deal with their drug addiction, for example, and really, you know, making sure that they\u2019re addressing the things that for that particular individual, put that person at risk of committing another crime.\u00a0 So there\u2019s a different level of interaction between the officers and probationer now.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 And it\u2019s not necessarily confrontational in terms of reading them the Riot Act, again, motivational interviewing is breaking down, as you said, breaking down those barriers and getting the person to understand what it is they did and the steps that they need, cognitive behavioral therapy or what some people call thinking for change, getting them to think differently about who they are and what they do.\u00a0 And that\u2019s proven to be successful.<\/p>\n
Dr. Geraldine Nagy:\u00a0 You know, if we want to really make a change in a person, we all know that we have to change their thinking.\u00a0 And we have to get them to recognize for themselves the importance of the change, and that\u2019s what motivational interviewing and supervision is about.\u00a0 It\u2019s really helping that person take responsibility and giving them the tools, now that they know they need to take responsibility, how can they solve problems.\u00a0 How can they manage their impulsivity?\u00a0 Those are just two examples.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 But it\u2019s interesting that there\u2019s a lot of people within the criminal justice system, let alone outside of the criminal justice system, who, they sort of scoff at this concept of motivational interviewing and they sort of scoff at this concept of incentives for good behavior on probation, yet these are the things that seem to prompt change in terms of people who desperately need the change.<\/p>\n
Dr. Geraldine Nagy:\u00a0 You know, one of the things that we do now, is we do what is called [PH] fidelity study, in which we look at case files and evaluate individual officers and the department as a whole as to how much they\u2019re adhering to these new strategies [INDISCERNIBLE] level.\u00a0 Just an example.\u00a0 We think that probation officers don\u2019t matter.\u00a0 I have in front of me a preliminary study, but it looks to see, do offenders who have an officer that does a very good job on their supervision agreement or plan, does that have a relationship [PH] risk with [PH] revocation and recidivism?\u00a0 And what we found was that there are officers that do well, have offenders with a 17% reduction in technical revocation, a 10% reduction in revocations as a whole, and they\u2019re less likely to have arrest at 12% level.\u00a0 That\u2019s just one little element.\u00a0 That\u2019s just one little element.\u00a0 So I guess what I\u2019m trying to say here and want to be clear about it, that quality of what that officer does with the offender starts with this plan, and people who have a good follow-up plan are significantly less likely to be revoked, a 10 and a 17% reduction is great for this one small, little area.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 Sure.<\/p>\n
Dr. Geraldine Nagy:\u00a0 And a [PH] 12% reduction in recidivism.\u00a0 So officers matter.\u00a0 They make a difference in what they do in that office with the probationer.\u00a0 And that\u2019s what this is all about.\u00a0 Really changing that interaction so that people are successful.\u00a0 And that\u2019s probably the biggest change we\u2019ve made.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 Well, I think it is.\u00a0 I mean, and that\u2019s one of the reasons why I wanted to bring it up, because you see motivational interviewing and people just don\u2019t understand how important it is for that officer to guide that individual in terms of the proper way of conducting their lives.\u00a0 And that the officers\u2019 embracing of motivational interviewing, maybe there needs to be a different way of phrasing it or describing it, but that seems to be the heart and soul in terms of getting people to do what it is they should\u2019ve been doing from the beginning.<\/p>\n
Dr. Geraldine Nagy:\u00a0 You know, when I go to a doctor and he just doesn\u2019t even look up to me and reads from a chart, and we don\u2019t have an interaction, I think I\u2019m less likely to comply with what he\u2019s told me to [PH] do.\u00a0 But if, has a very engaging conversation, listens to me, talks about my problems, and problem-solves with me, I am likely to do that.\u00a0 And I think that\u2019s true of [PH] probation.\u00a0 I think that\u2019s true with the probation officer, and so that\u2019s really what we\u2019ve switched from, is going through routine process and a checklist, to actually having a problem-solving session with somebody who\u2019s trained to help you solve your problems.\u00a0 Whether it be drug abuse or impulsivity or hanging around with the wrong friends, or not having a job, any of those.\u00a0 And so, I just think it\u2019s — [PH] we believe in proving that that it makes a difference and it\u2019s a viable alternative.\u00a0 That when people go to prison, which is very costly, and has all sorts of other ramifications for a society, that it\u2019s a viable alternative to doing that, where they don\u2019t get that sort of assistance.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 We have three minutes left in the program.\u00a0 You know, Project Hope in Hawaii, which was able to reduce recidivism and returns to prison significantly, you know, it was interesting that they responded very quickly to violations in terms of incarcerations.\u00a0 But one of the things that I was really sort of surprised about is that their focus on programs was really a change in philosophy in terms of how you deal with the offender, in terms of both motivational interviewing and enforcing the conditions of supervision rather stringently.\u00a0 And I remember asking about the impact of programs, and programs were an important part of it, but not necessarily the most important part of it.\u00a0 Do you feel that that\u2019s true there for Travis County?<\/p>\n
Dr. Geraldine Nagy:\u00a0 Yeah, I agree.\u00a0 One of the things I want to make sure I\u2019m not misunderstood about is that while officers are working with people to change, they\u2019re also an officer of the court, and so those officers that are able to maintain that authority and hold people accountable, are also more effective in getting people to take responsibility for their actions and to change.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 Right.<\/p>\n
Dr. Geraldine Nagy:\u00a0 And I think that\u2019s what Project Hope does, is very quickly it shows that this is serious business.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 Right.<\/p>\n
Dr. Geraldine Nagy:\u00a0 And that\u2019s what we expect our officers to do as well.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 Right.<\/p>\n
Dr. Geraldine Nagy:\u00a0 Now, the response needs to be appropriate.\u00a0 We don\u2019t want to throw somebody in prison, but jail I think can be a very useful tool.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 Yeah, well, certainly and in terms of Travis County and Project Hope in Hawaii, that seems to have been borne out by the data.\u00a0 Do you feel that you have — well, first of all, no parole and probation agency in the country feels that they have all the resources necessary in terms of mental health, in terms of drug treatment, in terms of job assistance.\u00a0 But do you feel that you have enough for your higher risk offenders?<\/p>\n
Dr. Geraldine Nagy:\u00a0 No.\u00a0 And there\u2019s probably no director that\u2019s gonna say, as you said, say the answer to that is [PH] yes.\u00a0 But we have a certain issue here in Texas.\u00a0 People are funded by the number of people that are on probation.\u00a0 And what\u2019s happened in Travis County as we get more successful as a criminal justice system and diverting low risk people, even from prosecution, and sentencing people to probation, rather than to prison, our population is changing, so our population is [PH] growing some, meaning we get less funding for operation because we don\u2019t have all these low risk folks on probation anymore.\u00a0 So our caseloads are almost all-high and medium risk, and yet we\u2019re not getting [PH] funding for that.\u00a0 And so, there\u2019s some challenges to funding.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 That\u2019s got to be a huge challenge.\u00a0 All right.\u00a0 Now, you\u2019ve been written up so often and accolades have come your way, so what is your principal advice to other directors of parole and probation throughout the United States or for that matter, throughout the world?<\/p>\n
Dr. Geraldine Nagy:\u00a0 Well, I think that people often don\u2019t initiate major change because they know that it\u2019s going to be difficult.\u00a0 And they anticipate all the challenges from the beginning.\u00a0 And what I would say to other directors is success, when you\u2019re dealing with any major change, in the middle, it can look like failure.\u00a0 You can look at people who have created change in our culture and then in the middle, there were substantial challenges.\u00a0 And the way that I see that is that the challenges are just part of the puzzle, so don\u2019t stop because you don\u2019t have solutions to those from the get go.\u00a0 People will help you solve those problems.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 I want to thank you for that.\u00a0 Our guest today, ladies and gentlemen, has been Dr. Geraldine Nagy, Director, Travis County Community Supervision and Corrections.\u00a0 Ladies and gentlemen, this is DC Public Safety.\u00a0 We want to thank you for all of the contact.\u00a0 We\u2019re up to 133,000 requests on a monthly basis for the radio\/television show\u2019s blog and transcripts at media, M-E-D-I-A-C-S-O-S-A.gov.\u00a0 Please have yourselves a very, very pleasant day.<\/p>\n
[Audio Ends]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"
Welcome to \u201cDC Public Safety\u201d \u2013 Radio and television shows, blog and transcripts\u00a0on crime, criminal offenders and the criminal justice system. We currently average 90,000 page views a month. The portal site for \u201cDC Public Safety\u201d is http:\/\/media.csosa.gov. Radio Program available at http:\/\/media.csosa.gov\/podcast\/audio\/2012\/04\/successful-probation-practices-in-travis-county-tx\/ [Audio Begins] Len Sipes:\u00a0 From the nation\u2019s capital, this is DC Public […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"nf_dc_page":"","_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[23,52,31,18,21],"tags":[138,277,139],"class_list":["post-791","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-audiopodcast","category-parole-and-probation","category-probation","category-reentry","category-whatworks","tag-community-corrections","tag-probation","tag-travis-county","entry"],"aioseo_notices":[],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","jetpack_shortlink":"https:\/\/wp.me\/pBoKk-cL","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack_likes_enabled":true,"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/media.csosa.gov\/podcast\/transcripts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/791","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/media.csosa.gov\/podcast\/transcripts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/media.csosa.gov\/podcast\/transcripts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/media.csosa.gov\/podcast\/transcripts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/media.csosa.gov\/podcast\/transcripts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=791"}],"version-history":[{"count":2,"href":"https:\/\/media.csosa.gov\/podcast\/transcripts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/791\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":793,"href":"https:\/\/media.csosa.gov\/podcast\/transcripts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/791\/revisions\/793"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/media.csosa.gov\/podcast\/transcripts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=791"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/media.csosa.gov\/podcast\/transcripts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=791"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/media.csosa.gov\/podcast\/transcripts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=791"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}