http:\/\/twitter.com\/lensipes<\/a>.<\/p>\n[Audio Begins]<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 From the nation’s capital, this is DC Public Safety.\u00a0 I’m your host, Leonard Sipes.\u00a0 Ladies and gentlemen, today’s topic is pretrial and treatment in pretrial and one of the main points that I want to make from the very beginning is the fact that where we have two million people in the present system throughout this country, we have\u00a0 many millions more who are involved in the pretrial process.\u00a0 They are arrested, they go through the pretrial process and this whole concept of treatment within pretrial, actually from a sheer numerical point of view, takes on much greater importance than those\u2014than the discussion of treatment within the correctional setting.\u00a0 There are literally millions of people going through the arrest process, going through the pretrial process, all throughout the United States and my guess is that the vast majority of them do not receive treatment of any kind by their pretrial agency.\u00a0 To talk about this issue, we have two principals.\u00a0 One is Terrence Walton, he is the Director of Treatment; and two, is Michael McGinnis, he is the Deputy Director of Treatment.\u00a0 Both represent the Pretrial Services Agency for the District of Columbia and they’re my sister agency for the court services and a federal supervision agency.\u00a0 Pretrial Services is a federal agency like we are at CSOSA.\u00a0 And to Terrence and to Michael, welcome to DC Public Safety.<\/p>\n
Michael McGinnis:\u00a0 Well, thank you, Len, good to be here.<\/p>\n
Terrence Walton:\u00a0 Thank you.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 All right, gentlemen, first of all, Michael, let’s go and set some basics up.\u00a0 The Pretrial Services Agency for the District of Columbia does what?<\/p>\n
Terrence Walton:\u00a0 Why don’t I take that one if I could?<\/p>\n
Michael McGinnis:\u00a0 Yeah, go ahead.<\/p>\n
Terrence Walton:\u00a0 I’ll take it, all right.\u00a0 Listen, the agency does a lot and it’s hard to capture it but essentially we’re responsible for two big tasks. The biggest task is and the first task is to assist the court in making release decisions. So when a defendant is arrested and is being considered for release, Pretrial Services conducts an interview, reviews criminal history, talks with the defendant directly, talks sometimes with collaterals to get a sense of who we have, and then recommends to the court either release or detention.\u00a0 And if they’re going to be released, the many of them we recommend they be released with certain conditions that they must comply with.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 Right.<\/p>\n
Terrence Walton:\u00a0 That’s our first big task, helping the court make good release decisions.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 And a good release decision is based principally upon two things:\u00a0 A) risk to public safety and B) whether or not the defendant will return for trial, do I have that right?<\/p>\n
Terrence Walton:\u00a0 That’s exactly right, that’s exactly right.\u00a0 There’s lots of ways to say it, but those are the two big things. We don’t want them to jump bail, we don’t want them to disappear and we also don’t want a subsequent arrest if we can help prevent that.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 And you’re talking about conditions of supervision.\u00a0 There are many conditions of supervision.\u00a0 You could put the person under GPS surveillance; have the person constantly being tracked.\u00a0 There’s a lot of reporting requirements for that person and the treatment component, the very reason why we’re doing the program today, could be a component of pretrial release, it could be a condition of pretrial release.<\/p>\n
Terrence Walton:\u00a0 That is exactly right and in fact, because a significant number of defendants who are arrested in DC are testing positive for drugs or report drug use\u2014in fact it’s about 33% of the adult population test positive for some drug other than marijuana.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 Right.<\/p>\n
Terrence Walton:\u00a0 We don’t test for marijuana at lockup, so if we did, it would be twice that number.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 Right.<\/p>\n
Terrence Walton:\u00a0 But we’ve talked about cocaine, heroin, PCP, amphetamines.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 The drugs with the largest correlation to serious crime.<\/p>\n
Terrence Walton:\u00a0 That’s right, 33% of our population will test positive for that coming in the door and that’s 60% of the juveniles will test positive for some drug, and in that case it’s almost always marijuana.\u00a0 So the size of those populations and for many of those adults, we’re recommending release conditions that include requirements that they drug test and that’s done by our agency and processed in our own lab, as well as other release conditions.\u00a0 And that’s really the second big task.\u00a0 The first big task is recommending release conditions.\u00a0 And the second big task is supervising those conditions and keeping the court aware of how the defendant’s doing.\u00a0 But I think Michael will agree with this, that it’s not simply just us overseeing and reporting what happens.\u00a0 Pretrial Services is involved in trying to help motivate defendants, help them do the right thing, figure out their obstacles that will keep them from being able to comply and help them solve those problems.\u00a0 So we see\u2014we respond to the court, we have a law enforcement responsibility but we’re very much centered on the needs of the defendant and how best we can meet those needs in a way that helps them to do the right thing.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 Well, Michael, the question goes over to you now.\u00a0 For many people involved in the criminal justice system, they have mental health issues.<\/p>\n
Michael McGinnis:\u00a0 Um-hm.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 How do we expect that individual to do well under pretrial or do well under any sort of supervision, whether they come over to us after they’re found guilty\u2014how are they going to do well unless they get the treatment they need to stabilize themselves and to deal with their mental health issues, correct?\u00a0 I mean, it does come down to that level of basics.<\/p>\n
Michael McGinnis:\u00a0 It definitely does and one of the things that we have here at the Pretrial Services, our Specialized Supervision Unit, and this is a unit that after a defendant is assessed and would be found perhaps with a current issue and they would meet the requirements of this unit, this is a unit that would\u2014specializes in working with that population.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 Um-hm.<\/p>\n
Michael McGinnis:\u00a0\u00a0 So they could either be\u2014they would get them immediately connected into a mental health program and a substance abuse program if needed.\u00a0 If they were going to move them on to a mental health community court, you know, for diversion, that would be part of their job.\u00a0 But all the PSOs that work in there have a background in working with this population.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 And PSOs are?<\/p>\n
Michael McGinnis:\u00a0 Pretrial Service Officers.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 Okay, fine, thanks.<\/p>\n
Michael McGinnis:\u00a0 Right, have a background on this unit and a great interest in working with this current population.\u00a0 Which has, since I’ve been in this field and it’s been over 20 years working in this field, is this population is probably our most increasing population.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 Um-hm, yeah, no doubt about it.<\/p>\n
Michael McGinnis:\u00a0 We had, when I started with pretrial, we had one unit, an SSU unit, that’s a Special Supervision Unit, and now, because of need, we have two.\u00a0 So we have almost 18 Pretrial Services offices serving over 661 people in the program.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 That’s amazing.\u00a0 Terrence, give me a sense as to all the other treatment programs that you guys put on the table for people.<\/p>\n
Terrence Walton:\u00a0 Yeah, Michael mentioned the mental health component.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 Right.<\/p>\n
Terrence Walton:\u00a0 We also have a unit that does nothing but assesses. We have a social services assessment center that assesses men and women who are released and even those who are being considered for release, we conduct both addiction assessments as well as mental health assessments from that shop.\u00a0 Once we identify individuals who need treatment, there are really three big options for them, drug treatment.\u00a0 One is the drug court program, which is the Superior Court Drug Intervention Program, a pretrial program that has been around since 1993.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 A successful program that’s been noted nationally.<\/p>\n
Terrence Walton:\u00a0 Absolutely and one of the first ever to show up on the scene.\u00a0 That’s the program of choice.\u00a0 It has a complete regimen of incentives and sanctions, a single calendar, lots of contact with the judge<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 Right.<\/p>\n
Terrence Walton:\u00a0 Lots of opportunities for people to get the help that they need.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 Right.<\/p>\n
Terrence Walton:\u00a0 For those\u2014for folks that don’t qualify for drug court because of criminal history or some other disqualifier, we have another program called New Directions, which they can get the same treatment as a drug court defendant. The court supervision isn’t as close because these defendants are on various different calendars and they are incentives and sanctions, but while in drug court, there are both judicial sanctions, sanctions that come from the bench, from the judge as well as administrative sanctions, the ones that come from the supervision officer.\u00a0 In New Directions, all sanctions are administrative, all administered by the supervising officer.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 Right.<\/p>\n
Terrence Walton:\u00a0 Those are the two main programs.\u00a0 There’s one other option.\u00a0 Sometimes individuals are not eligible for New Directions either because they’re about to go to sentencing perhaps or some other reason.\u00a0 We have another track for those, where we’ll put them in treatment somewhere, temporarily, under a sanction contract, primarily to prepare for a transition to CSOSA probation, to probation here in the city.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 Right.<\/p>\n
Terrence Walton:\u00a0 So those are the three big options and they are all based on treatment needs.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 So in essence it is a combination of either substance abuse or mental health, and Michael, these are all, I’m assuming, cognitive-based programs where we help the decision-making process of the individuals involved in the criminal justice system.\u00a0 I mean, a lot of people don’t quite understand cognitive treatment but we really can, and the research is pretty clear on this, we really can intervene in the lives of other human beings and help them rethink their decision-making process.<\/p>\n
Michael McGinnis:\u00a0 Right, that’s the key word.\u00a0 I mean, helping someone rethink what they’re doing.\u00a0 You know, a lot of people that come in when they’re in the throes of an addition or they’re in this mode of what I call concrete-type thinking, that they’re repeating something over and over and getting the same result.\u00a0 You know, especially in our treatment program, which is our PSA STARS program, most all of our interventions are of the cognitive, behavioral kind.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 Right.<\/p>\n
Michael McGinnis:\u00a0\u00a0 But what’s also important, I just wanted to speak to a point that Terrence was talking about.\u00a0 In two of our programs, in the New Directions programs and in the drug court programs, the Pretrial Service offices that involved in those programs, they’re not only Pretrial Service offices, they’re also licensed clinicians and licensed substance abuse counselors.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 Right.<\/p>\n
Michael McGinnis:\u00a0\u00a0 So they’re providing not only the supervision but they’re also providing the clinical services, and that’s very unique to that program because they have a key perspective in working with the offender.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 Well, that’s one of the points that I wanted to make.\u00a0 Gentlemen, let’s cut to the chase. We are not just talking about pretrial in the District of Columbia; we’re talking about pretrial throughout the United States.<\/p>\n
Michael McGinnis:\u00a0 Yes.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 Well, for that matter, we’re talking about pretrial in the western industrialized world.\u00a0 Same situations for Canada, same situations for England, same situations for Australia, New Zealand, France.\u00a0 These are all the same issues that everybody is wrestling with throughout the country.\u00a0 We, in the District of Columbia, because we’re a federal agency, we have resources that the overwhelming majority of pretrial agencies do not have.\u00a0 To my knowledge, the overwhelming majority of pretrial agencies don’t have a dime for treatment.\u00a0 They have to put this person into a waiting list someplace and that person could wait quite some time before they get involved in treatment and for the love of heavens, they could have their trial before every get involved in treatment.\u00a0 So there is that difference, we have to admit that right up front, correct?<\/p>\n
Terrence Walton:\u00a0 That’s correct.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 Okay, the second thing is that you can tell within the stats.\u00a0 I mean, we have one of the best return to trial rates in the United States.\u00a0 Our stats are quite good.\u00a0 And probably one of the reasons why they’re good is that we do have people involved in treatment programs because the research is abundantly clear it can’t just be a matter of supervision.\u00a0 As I said to Michael at the very beginning, if you have somebody with a mental health problem, they need treatment.<\/p>\n
Terrence Walton:\u00a0 That’s right.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 So if you combine treatment with supervision, you get better results.<\/p>\n
Terrence Walton:\u00a0 I think that’s right.\u00a0 And Len, I want to add one other I think difference between what we have here in DC and what exists elsewhere in the country that doesn\u2019t cost any money and that is, we have a Bail Act.\u00a0 We have a statute that really supports Pretrial Services.\u00a0 Most folks don’t know this but there are very few bail bondsmen in the District of Columbia.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 Are there any?<\/p>\n
Terrence Walton:\u00a0 Very few.\u00a0 There may be one or two but there are very few.\u00a0 Because Pretrial Services as an industry, as a field I should say, has a belief in pretrial justice, essentially saying that if an individual needs to be detained, if they’re dangerous, they should be detained regardless of ability to pay.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 Right.<\/p>\n
Terrence Walton:\u00a0 And if they don’t need to be detained, if they’re not a danger to society, then it’s fundamentally unfair for them to be held merely because they can’t afford to post bond.\u00a0 So instead, we have a Bail Act, which heavily encourages the court to consider release of those who are safe to release with conditions, that pretrial supervises, that helps to assure public safety and return to court.\u00a0 And that doesn’t cost money, that takes political will and it takes advocacy and it takes being able to battle the interest groups that wouldn\u2019t like that.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 Well, it does take come money because I would imagine judges sitting on the Superior Court for the District of Columbia know that there are treatment options, know that there are GPS options for following that person 24 hours a day if necessary, know that our staffing levels are probably lower than most pretrial agencies throughout the country.\u00a0 My guess would be that the judge within the Superior Court here in the District of Columbia, they would be more apt to release a person on pretrial because they know they’re going into a top-rated organization that generally speaking does an excellent job of returning that person to trial<\/p>\n
Michael McGinnis:\u00a0 And I agree with you 100% and they also know that when a substance abuse problem is identified or a mental health issue is identified and is treated, the failure to appear and the re-arrest rates go down with the population that we’re working with.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 Right, so they have –<\/p>\n
Michael McGinnis:\u00a0 And that is very big.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 Yeah, and if a judge in Milwaukee wants to put the person on pretrial, I would imagine he or she is going to say, well, you know, well, they were handling cases of 200 to 1, 200 defendants to 1 Pretrial Services officer, they have on room for treatment, gee, I’d better stick this person in jail.\u00a0 So I would imagine that you save the system money as well as have a higher rate of success.<\/p>\n
Terrence Walton:\u00a0 Well that’s exactly right.\u00a0 I mean, some of us are motivated by the fact that it seems fundamentally fairer to do it this way, but others, the reality is, is it saves money. That if we can allow a person to stay in their community and at the meantime address their pro-social needs, we save in jail costs.\u00a0 That’s another important point.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 Ladies and gentlemen, our guests today are Terrence Walton, he’s the Director of Treatment; and Michael McGinnis, the Deputy Director of Treatment for the Pretrial Services Agency for the District of Columbia, a federal agency.\u00a0 The website is: www.psa.gov.\u00a0 As I move throughout the country and as I talk to my counterparts throughout the country, they ask about Pretrial Services Agency for the District of Columbia.\u00a0 It’s one of the best-known pretrial agencies in the country and having one of the best reputations.\u00a0 Principally I think, because we have a level of funding that so many other agencies simply do not have and the level of training and a level\u2014you’re just a good agency and I think people recognize that within the criminal justice system throughout the country.\u00a0 Alright, where do we go to from here?\u00a0 So the average person in the District of Columbia, the average person in Milwaukee\u2014why am I bringing up Milwaukee so many times today?\u00a0 The average person in Honolulu, the average person in Anchorage, Alaska says to themselves, the police finally got this idiot who’s been bothering the community and three hours later, he’s back on the street.\u00a0 Where is the justice in that?\u00a0 So you guys face that issue all the time.\u00a0 I mean, we have to hit that square, that nail squarely on the head and what people don’t understand is that they are defendants, they are not offenders and within our system, you are not guilty until you’re proven guilty, correct?<\/p>\n
Michael McGinnis:\u00a0 That’s correct.<\/p>\n
Terrence Walton:\u00a0 No, that’s right, and you know, there’s a balance here, that there’s a constitutional presumption of innocence and that means that unlike convicted offenders, the individuals who have not yet actually been convicted of their offense, have certain rights, and that we go to great effort to be sure that we’re using the least restrictive means possible to assure community safety.\u00a0 Now I want to put a caveat there because we respect the presumption of innocence, but recognize the possibility of guilt.\u00a0 And so because of that second piece, that’s the reason why we also assess criminal history, we assess the seriousness of the charge so that in the event this person is guilty, how serious is this, and that is factored into our recommendations.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 And you’re not talking about a short assessment, you’re talking about a rather lengthy, well thought-out assessment in terms of trying to get at that person’s risk to the community and that person’s treatment needs and that person’s past criminal history.\u00a0 I mean, it’s a pretty complete overview that you do with that individual.\u00a0 When you make those recommendations to the court, you probably know more about that person than his kid brother.<\/p>\n
Terrence Walton:\u00a0 Well, that may be true and it happens in a couple of stages.\u00a0 There was the initial stage, pre-release, where we do a comprehensive interview and review the records that we have to make initial decisions.\u00a0 But also other factors are considered there, that there are sometimes prosecutors who have positions and defense attorneys who have information, that’s all presented to the court as they’re making a release decision.\u00a0 Once the defendant is released, if he or she is released to our supervision, then if we have any reason to think they need one, we do an additional assessment, a clinical needs assessment that’s designed to look at both treatment needs, at mental health needs as well as social service needs.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 And many people caught up in the criminal justice system do have needs.\u00a0 I mean, there was a piece of research out a little while ago and now\u2014I remarked on Milwaukee or kept bringing Milwaukee up a little while ago, now I’m bringing mental health back up\u2014that 55%, according to a Department of Justice document, 55% of people called up in the criminal justice system self-assess or assess themselves.\u00a0 It was not a political designation but they did a self-assessment as having mental health issues.\u00a0 So this issue of mental health is something that is really driving much of our service component within the criminal justice system, assuming we have the programs there to service them to begin with.<\/p>\n
Michael McGinnis:\u00a0\u00a0 I think unfortunately, our prisons have been used as our mental health treatment centers in this country and as you’re saying, most people, when they\u2014\u00a0 To go back, I just want to go back to what you were talking about\u2014<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 Please, please, Michael.<\/p>\n
Michael McGinnis: -our funding here.\u00a0 It’s not only that we have the funding to provide these services.\u00a0 Our Director, Susan Shaffer, is also a real believer in the treatment of the offender that comes in and she puts a lot of her energies and times into this.\u00a0 And it really is a big piece of our agency because before I came to pretrial, I’d been running programs for alternatives to incarcerations, therapeutic communities.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 Right.<\/p>\n
Michael McGinnis:\u00a0 Taking programs behind the wall.\u00a0 And people are just cycling in and out of these, of our prisons without having these issues identified.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 But that’s the fundamental problem because I’ve talked to my peers throughout the country and they’re going to go, Leonard, I hear you on your daggone radio programs and you focus on public safety first, but you say that you have to have these treatment components because the research is clear that supervision doesn’t work unless you have a treatment component, and I got news for you, Leonard, I don’t have a dime for treatment.\u00a0 You know, but I want that person to get mental health treatment, substance abuse treatment, if I want to find some assistance in terms of that person getting work or getting occupational training, I’ve go to put him in a long line, where that person basically waits for months, unless I get a court order to move that person to the head of the line.\u00a0 There’s a lot of frustration out there, we all believe in treatment, we all believe in that component being necessary, but most of us don’t have the money for it.<\/p>\n
Terrence Walton:\u00a0 Well, there’s no easy answer to that.\u00a0 What many communities have done is done the best they can to leverage the resources that exist.\u00a0 There is professional treatment, there are faith-based organizations, there are peer support groups, which isn’t formal treatment, but it can sometimes do the same job.\u00a0 There are lots of options in most communities, especially around alcohol and drug issues, for people who need help to get some of that.\u00a0 You know, I also encourage\u2014there continues to be federal monies and state monies and grants available for organizations who have a will to go after it.\u00a0 It’s just worth doing it.<\/p>\n
Michael McGinnis:\u00a0\u00a0 I think it’s\u2014but it’s a great point, Terrence, because you and I were just kind of talking about this earlier this morning, is the whole field is moving more towards this recovery-orientated system of care, where we’re kind of looking at some\u2014that treatment, that line for treatment is different for everyone and there are many options, like faith-based options, there are community options, I think a lot of these other pretrial service organizations that might not have the funding, you know, to have their own treatment centers or put people in treatment\u2014they need to look to these community organizations, to start partnering with these community organizations in hopes of linking their offenders up to services.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 Well, and everybody’s got to come together and make this a priority.\u00a0 I mean, there is limited treatment monies available, but as you all have said, I mean, there’s the Salvation Army, there’s the faith-based community, there are private individuals, there are people who will do this on a pro bono basis.\u00a0 You’ve got to have the will to go out there and make those connections and that becomes extraordinarily important.\u00a0 But I do believe that again, one of the reasons why we do as well as we do is because look at the two of you\u2014I mean, we have the Director and Assistant Director of Treatment for a pretrial agency.\u00a0 I mean, there are people, organizations out there that would kill to have a Terrence Walton and a Michael McGinnis sitting before their microphones.<\/p>\n
Terrence Walton:\u00a0 Well, Len, you know, it starts with the will though.\u00a0 I mean, it starts with the desire, recognition that it’s important, that it’s necessary. And I want to take a minute to share something with our listeners that I think is important, that helps to underscore why it’s so important that we address the underlying issues of men and women who come through our systems.\u00a0 The American Society of Addiction Medicine is a really collection of physicians who practice addiction medicine and who sort of govern the field and give us guidance and space on research and medicine to help us understand addiction and addition recovery.\u00a0 And they’ve recently come out with a new policy statement that we don’t have time to go over\u2014I hope people will go to asam.org to see more details.\u00a0 But they’ve given for the first time a policy statement defining addiction.\u00a0 And let me give you the most interesting piece of that to me, that they have defined addition primarily as a brain disease, a disease that affects a couple of major systems in the brain.\u00a0 One is the reward system, as well as the command center, the logic and reason system of the brain.\u00a0 And here’s what important.\u00a0 They have through PET scans and SPECT images and MRTs, they have been able to look at brain activity and identify deficits in those areas of active addicts. But here’s what’s interesting.\u00a0 We’ve known that for a long time and we’ve assumed that it’s the drug use that has caused those problems.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 Right.<\/p>\n
Terrence Walton:\u00a0 What ASAM and other researchers have discovered is that for many, probably most current addicts, those brain deficiencies existed before they ever picked up a drug.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 That’s interesting.<\/p>\n
Terrence Walton:\u00a0 It might have been genetic or as a result of traumatic life experiences growing up that changed the –<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 A biological predisposition.<\/p>\n
Terrence Walton:\u00a0 Absolutely.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 That biological predisposition, by the way, is clearly there established for alcoholism as well.<\/p>\n
Terrence Walton:\u00a0 Absolutely.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 So why wouldn’t that biological predisposition be there for substance abuse.<\/p>\n
Terrence Walton:\u00a0 That’s right.\u00a0 So there’s the biological piece as well as the environmental that they have done studies on monkeys and others that\u2014and I wish I had time to tell you about one\u2014but where they demonstrated that by changing the environmental situation, by depriving organisms of nurturing and affiliation, that they change their brains.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 Give the public a sense of hope here because I’ve said that the research is abundantly clear.\u00a0 They do better with a combination of supervision.\u00a0 And we’re not leaving out the supervision component.\u00a0 Whether that person’s in treatment or not, we still supervise that person to the best of our availability and that could include, again GPS supervision where we track them 24 hours a day, 365 days a year.\u00a0 We’re not leaving out the supervision component.\u00a0 And sometimes supervision is an integral part of treatment.\u00a0 Sometimes that supervision officer, their first question is, are you taking your medication, are you going to treatment?\u00a0 Well, we know whether they’re going to treatment regardless.\u00a0 So sometimes that supervision component is an integral part of the treatment component but the bottom line is, to the public who, you know, say to themselves, you know, look, I’ve got schools underfunded, I’ve got the elderly to take care of, you’re talking about treatment for criminals for the love of heavens\u2014defendants, I understand.\u00a0 You know, we have to give them a sense of hope that what we do is successful and not only in the life of that individual, but we are protecting them by doing this and we’re doing that correct?<\/p>\n
Michael McGinnis:\u00a0 Well, of course we are.\u00a0 I mean, I think as we all know here, there’s not enough jail cells across this country to put people in and treating people is a lot less expensive than putting people behind\u2014<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 So it’s going to save them their taxpaying dollars.<\/p>\n
Michael McGinnis:\u00a0 There’s studies out for every dollar that’s invested in treatment.\u00a0 There’s a savings of $4 on that individual.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 And years ago, Rand said it was 7 to 1.<\/p>\n
Michael McGinnis:\u00a0 Yeah.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 We’re also protecting public safety though.<\/p>\n
Michael McGinnis:\u00a0 Right.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 I mean, that is a message that needs to be put on the table that their life is going to be safer if we provide substance abuse treatment or mental health treatment.<\/p>\n
Terrence Walton:\u00a0 If you don’t treat an addict, if you simply incarcerate an addict, when they come out eventually, and the vast majority of men and women who are incarcerated are eventually released.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 Right.<\/p>\n
Terrence Walton:\u00a0 They will still be an addict.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 Right.<\/p>\n
Terrence Walton:\u00a0 And so all of the problems that causes to our property and our lives and well-being will just continue.\u00a0 It is a smart investment to see if we can address those issues and the justice system is helpful because it gives\u2014holds people accountable and it gives them a little external motivation to stick with it, to go to the groups, to take the medicine until it kicks in naturally.\u00a0 It’s an essential component.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 But get back to the public safety point again because I do want to keep hammering this point home.\u00a0 If the person doesn’t do well, the person doesn’t go to treatment, doesn’t take their medication, is not enthusi\u2014well, not enthusiastically involved\u2014is not meaningfully involved in the treatment process, we go back to the court and they could choose to incarcerate that person until trial.<\/p>\n
Terrence Walton:\u00a0 Well, that’s right, there’s some whose releases are revoked based on a decision that they are a danger to society if they aren’t treated successfully.\u00a0 And there’s also in the drug court, there’s a number of other possible sanctions short of incarceration that’s designed to punish the behavior quickly and briefly and encourage them to get back on track.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 And motivate them all at the same time.<\/p>\n
Terrence Walton:\u00a0 That’s right.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 To get back on the track.\u00a0 Okay, final minute of the program.\u00a0 We save the public, the research states that we save the public a ton of money through the treatment and supervision process, number two that we enhance public safety, their odds of being victimized by this individual are greatly decreased, so we do that.\u00a0 What am I missing, what is the final word on what the public needs to hear?<\/p>\n
Terrence Walton:\u00a0 Oh, I guess the final word would be that this matters to each and every one of us, that most of us have been affected by addiction and crime, one way or the other and this is a good, wise investment for anyone who cares about this.\u00a0 And I encourage communities out there to do the best they can to make it happen.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes:\u00a0 Terrence, you’ve got the final word.\u00a0 Ladies and gentlemen, our guests today, Terrence Walton, Director of Treatment and Michael McGinnis, the Deputy Director of Treatment of the Pretrial Services Agency for the District of Columbia.\u00a0 It’s a federal agency, www.psa.gov.\u00a0 The program that Terrence mentioned in terms of drug standards, substance abuse standards, asam.org.\u00a0 Ladies and gentlemen again, this is DC Public Safety.\u00a0 We appreciate your calls, we appreciate your letters, we appreciate your emails and we appreciate your guidance and please have yourselves a very, very pleasant day.<\/p>\n
[Audio Ends]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"
See http:\/\/media.csosa.gov for our television shows, blog and transcripts. Radio Program available at http:\/\/media.csosa.gov\/podcast\/audio\/2011\/12\/pretrial-supervision-and-treatment-dc-public-safety-radio\/ We welcome your comments or suggestions at leonard.sipes@csosa.gov or at Twitter at http:\/\/twitter.com\/lensipes. [Audio Begins] Len Sipes:\u00a0 From the nation’s capital, this is DC Public Safety.\u00a0 I’m your host, Leonard Sipes.\u00a0 Ladies and gentlemen, today’s topic is pretrial and treatment in […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"nf_dc_page":"","_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[23,45,71,8,17,52,40,21],"tags":[102,103,104,105,82,106,65,64],"class_list":["post-736","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-audiopodcast","category-courts","category-drug-court-2","category-drugtreatment","category-mentalhealth","category-parole-and-probation","category-pre-sentence-reports","category-whatworks","tag-cognitive","tag-d-c-district-of-columbia","tag-drugs","tag-mental-health","tag-pretrial","tag-substance-abuse","tag-treatment","tag-washington","entry"],"aioseo_notices":[],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","jetpack_shortlink":"https:\/\/wp.me\/pBoKk-bS","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack_likes_enabled":true,"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/media.csosa.gov\/podcast\/transcripts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/736","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/media.csosa.gov\/podcast\/transcripts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/media.csosa.gov\/podcast\/transcripts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/media.csosa.gov\/podcast\/transcripts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/media.csosa.gov\/podcast\/transcripts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=736"}],"version-history":[{"count":2,"href":"https:\/\/media.csosa.gov\/podcast\/transcripts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/736\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":738,"href":"https:\/\/media.csosa.gov\/podcast\/transcripts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/736\/revisions\/738"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/media.csosa.gov\/podcast\/transcripts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=736"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/media.csosa.gov\/podcast\/transcripts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=736"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/media.csosa.gov\/podcast\/transcripts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=736"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}