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Radio Program available at http:\/\/media.csosa.gov\/podcast\/audio\/2011\/01\/root-inc-reaching-out-to-others-together-dc-public-safety-radio\/<\/a><\/p>\n We welcome your comments or suggestions at leonard.sipes@csosa.gov or at Twitter at http:\/\/twitter.com\/lensipes<\/a>.<\/p>\n [Audio Begins]<\/p>\n Len Sipes:\u00a0 From our nation\u2019s capital, this is DC Public Safety.\u00a0 I\u2019m your host, Leonard Sipes.\u00a0 At our microphones today is Kenny Barnes, MS.\u00a0 He is the founder, CEO of ROOT, Inc.\u00a0 ROOT is one of these organizations in Washington, DC, very similar to ant-crime organizations throughout the United States, although ROOT has had a very long and illustrious background.\u00a0 These are individuals who work with ex-offenders.\u00a0 These are individuals who work with kids in the community.\u00a0 These are individuals, and this is an organization that is renowned for getting in and solving problems within the city of Washington, DC, working on the streets, working where the problem really is.\u00a0 Kenny is a recent recipient of the National Service Award from the U.S. Department of Justice for his work with victims.\u00a0 Joining Kenny today is Clint Murchinson.\u00a0 Clint is the community outreach coordinator of ROOT.\u00a0 The address for ROOT is www.rootinc.org<\/a>, and with that introduction, Kenny Barnes and Clint Murchinson, welcome to DC Public Safety.<\/p>\n Kenny Barnes:\u00a0 Thank you for having us<\/p>\n Len Sipes:\u00a0 Kenny, you\u2019ve been around a long time.\u00a0 You\u2019re well known in Washington, DC.\u00a0 Everybody likes you, everybody respects you, and everybody knows your work.\u00a0 But remember, the audience for this program, well, 80% of the audience for this program goes beyond Washington, DC.\u00a0 In fact, 20% of it goes international.\u00a0 So give me a 30 second explanation of what ROOT incorporated is and does.<\/p>\n Kenny Barnes:\u00a0 ROOT is an acronym.\u00a0 It stands for Reaching Out to Others Together.\u00a0 It was founded back in 2002 after the horrific murder of my son by a young man who was a product of the juvenile justice system in the District of Columbia.\u00a0 It also stands for; we need to get to the root of the problem, what is creating such violent young children today.<\/p>\n Len Sipes:\u00a0 And what, by the way, as long as you bring that up, what is the root of the problem?<\/p>\n Kenny Barnes:\u00a0 Well, we need to learn, we need to know that violence is a learned behavior.\u00a0 It\u2019s not innate.\u00a0 So the root of the problem is, we need to deal with issues that create violence rather than waiting to react to violence.<\/p>\n Len Sipes:\u00a0 And what are those issues?<\/p>\n Kenny Barnes:\u00a0 Mental health issue, the trauma that\u2019s imposed on a community, the trauma that\u2019s imposed when youth are exposed to violence, when youth are exposed to drugs, proper parenting, dysfunctional parents in the home, collaborative effort between all agencies and organizations working together, which we\u2019ve not had in DC, which we\u2019re striving to get in DC.<\/p>\n Len Sipes:\u00a0 Well, I would dare say, and before we get into these larger issues, Clint, you\u2019re community outreach coordinator.\u00a0 You\u2019re the person who does what?\u00a0 You\u2019re the person on the street who directly works with individuals who have come out of the prison system who are acting out, who are being disruptive, you are the person who\u2019s there to deal with them one on one, and my guess is that you\u2019re there to get them back into a GED program if they\u2019ve dropped out of school, if they\u2019re acting out, to talk about anger management, if they\u2019ve got potential, to get them into job training, your job is to show them the better nature of what it is they want to be and what it is they want to do and get them out of a life of possibly mugging and thugging, as some people like to put it, and move them in a better direction.\u00a0 Am I right or wrong?<\/p>\n Clinton Murchinson:\u00a0 Exactly, you are right.\u00a0 And one reason why I do what I do is because, you know, I\u2019m ex-offender, as was mentioned, and I know the potentials and a lot of the people that\u2019s out here, and I don\u2019t just deal with ex-offenders, but I\u2019m dealing with those who are out here in society and are being misguided, even though they don\u2019t realize the misguidedship that they are, going down the road, so like, what I do, I work with them, pull them out, and do what ROOT said, reach out to others together as opposed to just mentioning ROOT, Inc, and having them come for us, we reach out to them, unlike other organization does, and when we work with them, you know, like I said, we listen to the kids, the young people\u2019s concerns, because a lot of them want attention, and we listen to their concerns, and in listening to that, then we found out that, okay, this has a lot to do with their household, their upbringing, as opposed to just, you know, living on the streets, playing video games, listening to so called rap music, gangster rap, it starts at home.\u00a0 It starts at home, and I myself, as mentioned earlier, I\u2019m an ex-offender, and yes, I was out there doing what I thought was right, even though my mother and father was always telling me, don\u2019t do this, don\u2019t do that, I became curious, and becoming curious, I had associates who I thought were friends and thought they were going to lead me right, but they led me down the wrong road \u2013<\/p>\n Len Sipes:\u00a0 I\u2019ve had a lot of people who come out of the prison system basically said, you know, Leonard, you can kick drugs, kicking drugs is easy, kicking the corner is impossible.\u00a0 Kicking your friends, kicking what you grew up with, kicking what you\u2019ve become accustomed to is very, very hard to give up.\u00a0 You know, Kenny, I want to go back to larger issues, root violence, community violence, perception of violence, I mean, everybody in this country wants the golden key to preventing violence in cities.\u00a0 Everybody in this country essentially wants the same things.\u00a0 They want people who are caught up in the criminal justice system who, regardless of who they are, because in Washington DC, we\u2019re talking about African Americans, in Minneapolis, we could be talking about whites, and in another city, we could be talking about Hispanics, and in another city, we could be talking about Indians.\u00a0 It is essentially the same set of dynamics regardless as to where you go and what particular group you look at, everybody wants these individuals to succeed.\u00a0 Everybody wants them to finish high school.\u00a0 Everybody wants them to go out and get a job.\u00a0 Everybody wants them to go on and get job training or education.\u00a0 Everybody wants everybody else to stay off drugs.\u00a0 Everybody wants everybody else to do well.\u00a0 Yet we have a society where we have the Kenny Barnes of the world, and we have ROOTs, and we have organizations like ROOT all throughout the country, and yet here we are sitting in 2010, and sometimes it just doesn\u2019t seem to get any better.<\/p>\n Kenny Barnes:\u00a0 I\u2019m going to slightly disagree with you, Leonard.<\/p>\n Len Sipes:\u00a0 Okay, go ahead.<\/p>\n Kenny Barnes:\u00a0 I think that we have, I know we have a city that reacts very well to violence.\u00a0 I know we have a country that reacts very well to violence.\u00a0 We have a prison, school to prison pipeline.\u00a0 We have a society that believes in incarceration that believes in locking people up instead of, that believes in prevention.\u00a0 I know this, because in a lot of the funding that is available, it\u2019s not so much available for prevention.\u00a0 So I think that\u2019s where we need to start gearing our attention.\u00a0 Ideally, what you were saying is true, ideally, we wouldn\u2019t have a lot of the issues that we have if what you were saying is totally correct.<\/p>\n Len Sipes:\u00a0 Well, the question is, is that you go back all throughout criminology.\u00a0 I mean, there\u2019s a book that all, when I left the police department years ago and had to, when I went to study criminology, Street Corner Society, which is a classic book that every criminology student has to read about Italian street corner gangs in New York, they didn\u2019t say New York, but it really was New York in right around the 1920s, and the dynamics from the street corner gangs today and the Italian street corner gangs back in the 1920s, it is in essence the same thing.\u00a0 There are differences, there are, you know, the level of violence wasn\u2019t there, but these are people who carried guns, these are people who loved to do substances, these are people who dropped out of school, these are people who mistrust authority, these are people who don\u2019t see themselves as having a future, these are people who see themselves as fate decides what happens to you.\u00a0 I mean, these are all the same things that happen on the street corner of Washington DC, Philadelphia, Oklahoma City, it doesn\u2019t matter.\u00a0 My point is that there just seems to, decade in, decade out, there seems to be, if you don\u2019t mind me saying this, an underclass, regardless of what race they happen to belong to, that are caught up in the criminal justice system that are caught up in mugging and thugging, and they don\u2019t see a way out for themselves.<\/p>\n Kenny Barnes:\u00a0 Yes, but I want to make a difference, is that from a criminologist\u2019s perspective, my background is clinical psychology.\u00a0 So we may have a different viewpoint as to what causes this, I don\u2019t know, because I\u2019ve not studied criminology, I have studied psychology.\u00a0 The fact of the matter is that we live in a system that almost demands an underclass.\u00a0 There almost has to be an underclass for this system to be successful.\u00a0 Now when you throw in racism and you throw in poverty and you throw in lack of education, you throw in dysfunctional families, you throw in dropping out of school, you now add on top of that, you already have a fire burning in the community already.\u00a0 Now what you do is you add on top of that music, kill, murder, drugs, b, whore, and you add that on top of that to an underclass that is already on fire, that\u2019s like pouring gasoline on the fire, so now what happens is you see children now that are, and I have to say, it\u2019s still a small percentage.\u00a0 I\u2019m not saying all children, it\u2019s still a small percentage, but it\u2019s growing, and I see children that are almost out of control.<\/p>\n Len Sipes:\u00a0 And you know, you\u2019ve said so many things, and we could move in so many different directions, and I, there are people out there who just take a look at the music and cannot fathom how it was ever created and how it was ever produced and how it was ever embraced because the messages are so self-destructive to younger people, yet the next person who comes into this studio will see it as an art form and as a form of urban expression and as an expression of who we really are.\u00a0 You\u2019ve touched upon a lot of different things, but it\u2019s almost not that we have, that this system creates an underclass, needs an underclass, the music part of it is beyond comprehension, because it\u2019s so self-destructive, and that\u2019s something I\u2019ll never quite understand, but I\u2019m glad you brought it up.\u00a0 Clinton, I want to get you in here.\u00a0 Somewhere along the line between the two of you gentlemen, I want to get to three things, and we talked about them at the beginning of the program: prevention, the fact that we can\u2019t glorify former offenders, and the fact of what it is that ROOT does, but we need to leave a message to people today from all across the country all around the world who are going to be listening to this program, what communities need to do to lower crime and to get kids in school and to create an atmosphere of success for these kids.\u00a0 What is it?\u00a0 You work on the street, you know these kids better than anybody else.\u00a0 What is it, what should we do?<\/p>\n Clinton Murchinson:\u00a0 Well, a lot of people might disagree with me, but what motivates me in helping these kids and understanding these kids is understanding myself first.\u00a0 You know, recognizing how precious life is in the beginning, and in doing so, you know, I look at how I want to be treated.\u00a0 And a lot of people don\u2019t do that.\u00a0 They don\u2019t do that.\u00a0 They do not look at how they really want to be treated, and I, myself, for one, is a person who loved myself, which in turn, make me love others.<\/p>\n Len Sipes:\u00a0 All right, so you\u2019ve got to know yourself, number one, and there\u2019s got to be respect given and respect returned.<\/p>\n Clinton Murchinson:\u00a0 Exactly, because that\u2019s one thing that is motivating a lot of youth out here in society \u2013<\/p>\n Len Sipes:\u00a0 Oh, lord knows!<\/p>\n Clinton Murchinson:\u00a0 – you know, is respect.\u00a0 They don\u2019t respect anybody.\u00a0 They don\u2019t even respect themselves.<\/p>\n Len Sipes:\u00a0 Got it.\u00a0 Now where does that come from?\u00a0 Number two?<\/p>\n Clinton Murchinson:\u00a0 Where did it come from?\u00a0 I think that comes from a breakdown in the household again.\u00a0 You know, you have one parent household, the father might be in jail, or he might have ran off, messed with some other woman, and therefore the woman has to fend for herself, and then she, in turn, are doing what she thinks she has to do in order to get by.<\/p>\n Len Sipes:\u00a0 All right, I\u2019m going to stop you right there, and now the question\u2019s going to go to both of you is, there\u2019s a lot of people who believe that the root cause \u2013 the root cause, I love the term, because ROOT Inc. is here before our microphones, ladies and gentlemen, the root cause of all of this is what\u2019s happening in the home, the root of all of this is child abuse.\u00a0 The root of all of this is that even if Mom is the last one there, even if Dad\u2019s not part of the picture, that kid\u2019s, in essence, raising himself or herself from an early age, and that kid is growing up feeling abandoned and unloved, which goes to the alcohol, which goes to the drugs, which goes to the violence, and is that anywhere, is that feasible as in terms of being the major contributor to the problem that we have today, Kenny?<\/p>\n Kenny Barnes:\u00a0 I\u2019m going to go heavy on you, Leonard, for a minute.<\/p>\n Len Sipes:\u00a0 Go ahead, please.<\/p>\n Kenny Barnes:\u00a0 Okay, as I said, my background is clinical psychology, and so what you do in a scientific experiment, you look at what is variables and interchanging variables.\u00a0 What is going on today that didn\u2019t go on 40 years ago, 50 years ago?\u00a0 Why are children becoming more violent today?\u00a0 Why do we have, and it\u2019s getting younger, why do we have some of the most violent young people we\u2019ve ever had in the history of the United States?\u00a0 What\u2019s changed?<\/p>\n Len Sipes:\u00a0 Why?<\/p>\n Kenny Barnes:\u00a0 Number one, this is going to cause some controversy on your show, you\u2019re going to get all kinds of calls about this.<\/p>\n Len Sipes:\u00a0 All right.<\/p>\n Kenny Barnes:\u00a0 First of all is, African Americans, we don\u2019t live in a patriarchal society.\u00a0 We live in a matriarchal society.\u00a0 We need to understand that first of all.\u00a0 We need to understand that a lot of times, black men weren\u2019t in the families before just as they\u2019re not there today.\u00a0 The only difference is that if they were in the family before, all they did was basically brought a paycheck home.\u00a0 The woman was always the strength of the family, always the black family.\u00a0 So number one, what is the first missing variable is that women of today are no longer the matriarchs like they were years ago.\u00a0 We have three types of women that we see dealing with these children.\u00a0 One is the good mother that\u2019s out there struggling and trying to keep her family together.\u00a0 She\u2019s working, she can\u2019t afford it.\u00a0 No man around.\u00a0 The second mother is the type that\u2019s out there running the streets chasing men all over the place or hanging out running the streets.\u00a0 And then the third type of mother is the one that\u2019s on drugs and alcohol, but under either situation, children are raising themselves together.<\/p>\n Len Sipes:\u00a0 Well, okay, we agree.\u00a0 Kids are basically raising themselves or getting up in the morning and pouring their own cereal.\u00a0 We\u2019re talking about 6 year olds, 7 year olds, they are pouring their own cereal, they are sitting down in front of the television, they are dressing themselves, and if they go to school, they\u2019re going to school by themselves, Mom\u2019s not in the house, or Mom\u2019s sleeping it off.<\/p>\n Kenny Barnes:\u00a0 And Father\u2019s not around.<\/p>\n Len Sipes:\u00a0 And Dad\u2019s not around at all.<\/p>\n Kenny Barnes:\u00a0 That drives them to gangs, because why do you join a gang?<\/p>\n Len Sipes:\u00a0 Right, for companionship.\u00a0 Or family.<\/p>\n Kenny Barnes:\u00a0 Or either for safety.\u00a0 The gang\u2019s got my back.\u00a0 Okay, that\u2019s the first problem.\u00a0 The second problem is going to create some controversy to, and you\u2019re going to say, wow, I didn\u2019t think about that, is the church.\u00a0 Before years ago, churches were an integral part of the community.\u00a0 It was a part of the family, extended family.\u00a0 Churches have become corporate entities now, more concerned about making profit than they are about the community.\u00a0 Their doors are no longer open to the communities and families.\u00a0 It\u2019s more about making money.\u00a0 That\u2019s a second issue.\u00a0 And the third issue, when you take those two issues, it goes back to what we talked about.\u00a0 From the time a child wakes up now, they see 18 hours of video or TV every day, and that subconsciously has to have an effect on your mind.\u00a0 So you put all these three factors together, and I\u2019ve got to say this one last thing.\u00a0 I want you to think for a minute, if you\u2019re a black child in America, and you have a mother that you can\u2019t respect, then who can you respect?<\/p>\n Len Sipes:\u00a0 If you can\u2019t go to the church because the church has lost its authenticity, if you can\u2019t go to the mosque because it\u2019s lost its authenticity \u2013<\/p>\n Kenny Barnes:\u00a0 You can\u2019t go to government.<\/p>\n Len Sipes:\u00a0 – if you can\u2019t go to the government \u2013<\/p>\n Kenny Barnes:\u00a0 You can\u2019t go to the police.<\/p>\n Len Sipes:\u00a0 The only person that you\u2019re going to go to are gangs.<\/p>\n Kenny Barnes:\u00a0 That\u2019s all you\u2019ve got left.<\/p>\n Len Sipes:\u00a0 Ladies and gentlemen, we\u2019re halfway through a program that\u2019s streaking by like a comet going through the evening sky.\u00a0 I want to reintroduce our guest.\u00a0 Kenny Barnes, MS, he is the founder and CEO of ROOT, Inc.\u00a0 ROOT is a grassroots organization here in the city of Washington DC working on the streets with individuals, ex-offenders, people in trouble, people caught up in the criminal justice system to try to intervene.\u00a0 He is the recipient of the National Service Award for victim services from the United States Department of Justice.\u00a0 With Kenny Today is Clint Murchinson.\u00a0 Clint is a community outreach coordinator.\u00a0 The address is www.rootinc.org<\/a>.\u00a0 So in essence, let\u2019s get back to the conversation, gentlemen.\u00a0 The bottom line is this, that you\u2019re talking about it in terms of the African American community.\u00a0 I want to talk about it in terms of any community, and I\u2019m not trying just to be politically correct here.\u00a0 If you go and work with, I did street counseling on the streets of the city of Baltimore.\u00a0 I was out there doing gang counseling on my own.\u00a0 Clint, I used to do what you\u2019re doing.\u00a0 And all I had was the Appalachian kids, from the mountains, whose parents brought them down to Baltimore City, and so I\u2019m out there, you know, 11:00, midnight, 1:00 in the morning on the streets with the Appalachian kids.\u00a0 There were some black kids there, there were some other kids there from some other races, but it\u2019s principally Appalachian.\u00a0 Kenny, what you just said applies to them.\u00a0 And we\u2019re talking about during the 1970s and 1980s \u2013<\/p>\n Kenny Barnes:\u00a0 Let me tell you the difference, though.<\/p>\n Len Sipes:\u00a0 Okay, go ahead.<\/p>\n Kenny Barnes:\u00a0 Okay.\u00a0 You picked out one segment, and I\u2019m not going to debate you, I wouldn\u2019t debate you about economics plays a role.\u00a0 It does.\u00a0 But look what you did.\u00a0 You picked out one segment of the white community, the poorest segment of the white community to make a comparison.\u00a0 What I\u2019m talking about takes place in every major city in the United States of America.\u00a0 What you\u2019re talking about, you picked out one segment, right?\u00a0 Okay, that\u2019s the difference.\u00a0 We\u2019re talking about a problem that is systemic and endemic in the African American community, not one segment of it.<\/p>\n Len Sipes:\u00a0 Is it systemic regardless of what community you go into, or is it just the African American community?<\/p>\n Kenny Barnes:\u00a0 The issues that I\u2019m talking about, let me show you the difference.\u00a0 When I talk about this, and it does offend people, I\u2019m not going to lie about that.\u00a0 But if you look at a black family, and you look at a mother raising her children, when the black man leaves his family, his children, he\u2019ll leave his children, he will go to another family, and he will help raise the other family, and he\u2019ll raise children from the other family, or have new children, and forget all about the children he left behind.\u00a0 With a white family, the mother and the father will fight, they may hate each other, they may try to kill each other, murder each other, but they will fight for the death of their children, and let me give you another example \u2013<\/p>\n Len Sipes:\u00a0 What do we do about all this?<\/p>\n Kenny Barnes:\u00a0 Let me give you one more example.\u00a0 I went to Loyola, Loyola College in Baltimore.\u00a0 I was in the doctoral program there; I was the only African American at the time.\u00a0 I looked at, because the fact of the matter is, white people, 80% of rap music is more about white people.\u00a0 That\u2019s the fact of the matter.\u00a0 I looked at these kids who were trying to be cool when I was at Loyola, listening to rap music.\u00a0 Now again, the difference is, when they graduated, Len, they went on to become right wing Republicans!<\/p>\n Len Sipes:\u00a0 That\u2019s the point, that\u2019s \u2013<\/p>\n Kenny Barnes:\u00a0 But to us, it becomes a way of life.<\/p>\n Len Sipes:\u00a0 You know, when my kids screwed up, they had safety nets.\u00a0 They had a mother and a father who was going to get in their face and threaten them and say, we\u2019re going to cut you off and yadda, yadda, yadda, we worked hard for these kids \u2013<\/p>\n Kenny Barnes:\u00a0 But that\u2019s my point.<\/p>\n Len Sipes:\u00a0 – loving them, threatening them, doing whatever is possible, most kids caught up in the criminal justice system, they don\u2019t have that luxury.\u00a0 They don\u2019t have parents who are fighting tooth and nail to try and pull that kid out.\u00a0 They\u2019re on their own.<\/p>\n Kenny Barnes:\u00a0 Well now, you just validated what I\u2019m trying to say.<\/p>\n Len Sipes:\u00a0 No, no, it\u2019s not that I disagree with what it is that you\u2019re trying to say.\u00a0 I do believe that an awful lot of it applies to any group, an awful lot of it applies through, not just to today, but it applies all throughout the history of criminology within this country \u2013<\/p>\n Kenny Barnes:\u00a0 But the difference, Len, the difference is, if you look at percentages, look at percentage of homicide.\u00a0 52% of the homicides taking place in America today are black people killing black people.\u00a0 If you look at the prison system, the percentagewise, the largest percentage of people in the prison system, percentagewise, are black people.\u00a0 If you look at the economy, the largest percent of the people unemployed in any city you go in are black people.\u00a0 So we have to stop the systemic and endemic, directly affecting black people.<\/p>\n Len Sipes:\u00a0 We\u2019ve got 10 minutes to solve all this!<\/p>\n Kenny Barnes:\u00a0 That you can\u2019t correlate with overall society.\u00a0 That\u2019s what I\u2019m saying.<\/p>\n Len Sipes:\u00a0 Kenny and Clinton, we\u2019ve got 10 minutes to solve all this.\u00a0 So the point of this is that I have, every time I listen to music, and I\u2019ve heard the lyrics, it\u2019s like, oh my god, why don\u2019t we just stop playing this crap?\u00a0 How self-destructive could this possibly be?\u00a0 But it just explodes and continues and moves on, and it gets mainstream, I mean, sometimes you begin to wonder, okay, is the only solution here to move away from the problem, which seems to be the preferred solution of people, regardless of what city you go to, to get away from all of the ills of society, you just move, and that doesn\u2019t really solve the problem.\u00a0 What do we do with all this information?\u00a0 If we know what\u2019s causing the root of the crime problem in our cities, what do we do about it?<\/p>\n Kenny Barnes:\u00a0 Well, again, we have a system that, in the prison system, once again, it\u2019s a for profit system right now, which means that it\u2019s about money, it\u2019s about making money, it\u2019s about numbers.\u00a0 It really isn\u2019t about rehabilitation anymore.\u00a0 It\u2019s about how many people, because the more people you have in prison, the more money you make.\u00a0 Okay.\u00a0 So when you look at it from that perspective, you begin to understand why.\u00a0 You begin to understand \u2013<\/p>\n Len Sipes:\u00a0 So we want the system to fail?\u00a0 We don\u2019t want these kids to go to school, we don\u2019t want these kids to get an education, I mean, so the society is set up to the point where that\u2019s our desire?\u00a0 Our desire is to have the kid fail and go to prison because it\u2019s a money making enterprise?<\/p>\n Kenny Barnes:\u00a0 Well, let me say this.\u00a0 From my perspective, if you know, and what we are both agreeing to, that if there is no support system there, you\u2019re doomed almost to failure.\u00a0 It takes an extremely strong individual with no support system to come overcome their situation.<\/p>\n Len Sipes:\u00a0 I agree, I agree.\u00a0 How do we get to that support system?\u00a0 Clinton?<\/p>\n Clinton Murchinson:\u00a0 Well, like, I kind of differ on some of the things that Kenny has mentioned as far as, like, you know, the prison system not rehabilitating.\u00a0 Yes, being incarcerated, I have noticed that back in this 80s, they have gotten away from the theory of rehabilitation, but I\u2019m going to say in the 90s, they\u2019ve taken things away from you that they was giving you in the prison system, like certain magazines, you couldn\u2019t even order.\u00a0 I\u2019m talking about, like, what is it, Ebony Magazine, and one reason for that, because they have pretty women in there, so they use that to kind of curtail a lot of sex offenders that were incarcerated, right?\u00a0 And musical magazines, because of the rap music.\u00a0 They take all that away from you in prison.\u00a0 This was in the 90s they started doing this, and I myself have seen that that was a form of, like, rehabilitating you by taking away from you what was motivating you, but again, that goes back to a person has to understand themselves.\u00a0 I\u2019m talking about not just understand that I\u2019m black, or I\u2019m from DC, or I\u2019m some, understanding the nature of being a human being, and that ties in with spirituality.\u00a0 Once a person would tie into that, then they\u2019ll want to do good.\u00a0 They want to do what is right, because they fear the ultimate punishment.<\/p>\n Len Sipes:\u00a0 Every person coming out of the prison system says that you\u2019ve got to make that decision for yourself.\u00a0 I do agree with Kenny from the standpoint that only 11% of people in this country, in our prison systems in the criminal justice system get drug treatment.\u00a0 11% who need it get it, which means that the overwhelming majority don\u2019t.\u00a0 So for those people who say that they believe that the system is self-perpetuating, and it\u2019s set up to be self-perpetuating, that it\u2019s going to just continue, well there\u2019s a piece of evidence right there that the vast majority of people who need the drug treatment programs, need the mental health treatment programs, they don\u2019t get it, and I\u2019m not talking necessarily about the federal prison system, I\u2019m talking about any prison system, the money is not there to help them, and the research is pretty clear that, if they got the help, then they would do a lot better.\u00a0 But let\u2019s get off the prison system just for a second, and we can do an entire additional show on the prison system if you like.\u00a0 So what do we as a society do?\u00a0 I mean, what I\u2019m hearing is religion, what I\u2019m hearing is ethics \u2013<\/p>\n Kenny Barnes:\u00a0 No, no.<\/p>\n Len Sipes:\u00a0 – what I\u2019m hearing is changing \u2013<\/p>\n Kenny Barnes:\u00a0 You heard that from Clint.\u00a0 You\u2019re not hearing religion from me.<\/p>\n Len Sipes:\u00a0 Well, tell me.\u00a0 Tell me.<\/p>\n Kenny Barnes:\u00a0 No, religion, not at all.\u00a0 When my son was murdered, and I saw a bullet hole in his head, and a minister came to me and said, that\u2019s the will, turn it over to Jesus, that\u2019s the will of God, I didn\u2019t want to hear that.\u00a0 When you have people that are hopeless and despair, and you have ministers that are out there trying to get them to give them their last dollar, people have a tendency to sort of shy away from religion.<\/p>\n Len Sipes:\u00a0 Okay.\u00a0 So what do we do?\u00a0 What do we do then?\u00a0 If it\u2019s not spiritual \u2013<\/p>\n Kenny Barnes:\u00a0 Okay, what we do is, first thing we do is we know that the, turning to violence, research shows that it starts to begin from early kindergarten and elementary school to middle school.\u00a0 We know that the transition starts to take place.\u00a0 So what do we need to do?\u00a0 We need to go in early on and start doing preventative measures early on, early on prior to transitioning for violence to take place.\u00a0 That\u2019s what we need to do, number one.<\/p>\n Len Sipes:\u00a0 I agree, by the way.\u00a0 You know what?\u00a0 There\u2019s a review of research, talking about the most powerful prevention programs out there, the most powerful prevention program is working with the young mother early on when the kid just begins \u2013<\/p>\n Kenny Barnes:\u00a0 Exactly.<\/p>\n Len Sipes:\u00a0 So you are 1,000% correct.<\/p>\n Kenny Barnes:\u00a0 Exactly.<\/p>\n Len Sipes:\u00a0 What\u2019s your next point?<\/p>\n Kenny Barnes:\u00a0 Okay.\u00a0 The second point is, it\u2019s almost like the public health model, the way the public health model is the tertiary model.\u00a0 You have prevention early on from elementary school and pre-elementary school, you have prevention methods.\u00a0 By the time a child gets to middle school, some thoughts and theories have formed in their mind.\u00a0 Some things begin to take place.\u00a0 Then you need intervention.<\/p>\n Len Sipes:\u00a0 Okay, so give me something specific.\u00a0 Okay, so we\u2019ve said we\u2019re going to send, the first example, we\u2019re going to send social workers in to work with a mom to make sure that she\u2019s reading to the kid, be sure that she knows she can\u2019t hit the kid, be sure that she knows she\u2019s got to give the kid a hot breakfast every day, basics that she may not know.\u00a0 So now we\u2019re taking it into, the kid\u2019s now 7 and 8 years old, though, what do you do for that kid?\u00a0 Prevention, you\u2019re talking about prevention.<\/p>\n Kenny Barnes:\u00a0 I\u2019m talking about prevention.<\/p>\n Len Sipes:\u00a0 Give me an example.<\/p>\n Kenny Barnes:\u00a0 Okay, we can talk about issues that create violence.\u00a0 We can talk about gang violence, how to prevent them from joining gang violence.\u00a0 We can set up a default system for parenting.\u00a0 We can give parenting classes.\u00a0 We can give therapy.\u00a0 We can give psychology.\u00a0 Okay, we can do all type of interventions, and it has to be a multimodal comprehensive approach.\u00a0 It\u2019s not any one answer.<\/p>\n Len Sipes:\u00a0 So what you\u2019re talking about is replicating the gang.\u00a0 You\u2019re talking about a gang for good.\u00a0 You\u2019re talking about making sure that the kids are in a group environment, and they\u2019re being supportive of each other and getting the services that they need.<\/p>\n Kenny Barnes:\u00a0 You know Maslow\u2019s theory of hierarchy.\u00a0 You know about that.<\/p>\n Len Sipes:\u00a0 Mm-hm.<\/p>\n Kenny Barnes:\u00a0 What is the foundation for Maslow\u2019s theory of hierarchy?\u00a0 Public safety, housing, food, shelter.\u00a0 If we don\u2019t provide basic fundamental security for young people, why do we expect that they won\u2019t join gangs?<\/p>\n Len Sipes:\u00a0 Okay, and getting into the last minutes of the program, give me one more.\u00a0 You\u2019re doing a good job.\u00a0 You\u2019re doing a good job laying out specifics.\u00a0 Give me one more.<\/p>\n Kenny Barnes:\u00a0 Education.<\/p>\n Len Sipes:\u00a0 Education.<\/p>\n Kenny Barnes:\u00a0 Education.<\/p>\n Len Sipes:\u00a0 School\u2019s got to be 1,000 times better.<\/p>\n Kenny Barnes:\u00a0 Education.\u00a0 The other thing is community policing.<\/p>\n Len Sipes:\u00a0 All right.<\/p>\n Kenny Barnes:\u00a0 Community policing, and what I mean by community policing, I mean we\u2019re policing the community, actually begin to understand each other with, and I didn\u2019t say more police, I said community policing, with a strong emphasis on violent offenders, because we know, you know and I know, that most violent offenders are recidivists.\u00a0 So we have to pay close attention, and I don\u2019t care, I don\u2019t care what age they are, we have to pay close attention to violent offenders.<\/p>\n Len Sipes:\u00a0 You have done what I consider to be an extraordinary job, because most of the people that come to the microphones, they can tell you why they have the problem.\u00a0 We all know why we have the problem, but very few people can come up with specifics in terms of how to deal with the problem, and you\u2019ve just given us four.\u00a0 We\u2019ve got 30 seconds left, Kenny.\u00a0 You want to sum up?\u00a0 I mean, in the final analysis to the child listening to this program, the mother listening to this program, the mayor of Minneapolis listening to this program, you say what to that person?<\/p>\n Kenny Barnes:\u00a0 We must learn how to prevent violence rather than react to it, and we do, far too many instances react to it, and that\u2019s what\u2019s increasing a prison population that\u2019s increasing and bulging at the seams.<\/p>\n Len Sipes:\u00a0 You\u2019ve got the final word, and Kenny and Clinton, you guys are invited back.\u00a0 There\u2019s just no way that you can cover this within a half an hour, just went by way too fast.\u00a0 Kenny Barnes, MS, he is the recipient of the National Service Award for Victim Services from the United States Department of Justice from our current U.S. Attorney General, Eric Holder, he is the founder, CEO of ROOT, Inc, Clinton Murchinson, he is a community outreach coordinator for the ROOT, Inc. program here in Washington, DC, that\u2019s www.rootinc.org<\/a>.\u00a0 Ladies and gentlemen, this is DC Public Safety.\u00a0 I\u2019ve been your host, Leonard Sipes, and we really appreciate your participation in the program, the emails, the letters, and the comments that you give us.\u00a0 Look for us next time as we explore another topic within the criminal justice system.\u00a0 I want everybody to have themselves a very, very pleasant day.<\/p>\n [Audio Ends]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":" Welcome to DC Public Safety \u2013 radio and television shows on crime, criminal offenders and the criminal justice system. See http:\/\/media.csosa.gov for our television shows, blog and transcripts. We now average 200,000 requests a month. Radio Program available at http:\/\/media.csosa.gov\/podcast\/audio\/2011\/01\/root-inc-reaching-out-to-others-together-dc-public-safety-radio\/ We welcome your comments or suggestions at leonard.sipes@csosa.gov or at Twitter at http:\/\/twitter.com\/lensipes. 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