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This radio program is available at http:\/\/media.csosa.gov\/podcast\/audio\/2010\/06\/an-interview-with-bernard-melekian-director-us-department-of-justice-office-of-community-oriented-policing-services\/<\/a><\/p>\n

We welcome your comments or suggestions at leonard.sipes@csosa.gov <\/a>or at Twitter at http:\/\/twitter.com\/lensipes<\/a>.<\/p>\n

[Audio Begins]<\/p>\n

Len Sipes:\u00a0 From the nation\u2019s capital, this is D.C. Public Safety.\u00a0 I\u2019m your host, Leonard Sipes.\u00a0 We have a real treat for us to today, ladies and gentlemen. Bernard Melekian, he is the director of the U.S. Department of Justice Office of Community Oriented Policing Services, commonly known as the COPS office, www.cops.usdoj.gov to talk about what\u2019s happening with the COPS office and where the COPS office is going.\u00a0 Before we get into the interview with Director Melekian, I want to thank everybody once again for your calls, for your letters, for your emails.\u00a0 If you want to comment in any way, shape, or form in terms of what it is that we do here in D.C. Public Safety, please feel free as you already are doing.\u00a0 You can follow us via Twitter that is twitter.com\/lensipes, L-e-n S-i-p-e-s.\u00a0 If you want to get in touch with me directly via email, it\u2019s Leonard, leonard.sipes@csosaid.gov<\/a>.\u00a0 Or you can simply go in and comment in the comment area, which most of you do, which is media.csosa.gov.\u00a0 And simply comment in the comment boxes.\u00a0 CSOSA stands for the Court Services and Offender Supervision Agency, a parole — a federal parole and probation agency here in downtown Washington, D.C.\u00a0 And again, it\u2019s my pleasure to re-introduce Bernard Melekian.\u00a0 He is the executive Director, Director of U.S. Department of Justice Office of Community Oriented Policing Services, commonly known as COPS, a gentleman with 37 years of law enforcement experience and 25 years within the Coast Guard Reserve.\u00a0 Again, Bernard, welcome to D.C. Public Safety.<\/p>\n

Bernard Melekian:\u00a0 Thank you, Leonard, it\u2019s a pleasure to be here.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes:\u00a0 You know, 37 years in law enforcement, that\u2019s enough to tell 10 billion stories.<\/p>\n

Bernard Melekian:\u00a0 At least, at least.\u00a0 It\u2019s been a fascinating career.\u00a0 I feel–I do feel very blessed to have gotten to spend my adult life doing something I love doing.\u00a0 And I\u2019ve gotten to continue that here in Washington.\u00a0<\/p>\n

Len Sipes:\u00a0 You know, it is a profession.\u00a0 It is a calling.\u00a0 For those of us who have been in law enforcement, those of who have been in the criminal justice system, we\u2019re passionate about what it is we do, because we see the direct benefits to so many citizens.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0<\/p>\n

Bernard Melekian:\u00a0 You know, that\u2019s absolutely true.\u00a0 I think and I think it was doubly interesting is that very often the people that you help when you\u2019re a law enforcement officer don\u2019t see it or aren\u2019t aware of it.\u00a0 The–I\u2019ve always teased my fire department colleagues about the fact that everyone loves them even–because they\u2019re contribution is so tangible.\u00a0<\/p>\n

Len Sipes:\u00a0 Uh-huh.\u00a0<\/p>\n

Bernard Melekian:\u00a0 But what happens with law enforcement is very often the positive benefit is long-term or it\u2019s unseen.\u00a0 And I\u2019ve often thought that police officers labor in an unfortunate obscurity.\u00a0<\/p>\n

Len Sipes:\u00a0 The first time I was involved with a terrible automobile accident.\u00a0 And I was there by myself.\u00a0 And I literally saved the individual\u2019s life.\u00a0 About a week later, his parents came in, it was a young man involved in an automobile accident.\u00a0 And they were hugging me.\u00a0 And they were crying.\u00a0 And you know, I–from that, I\u2019m saying, my heavens, what other profession do you have where you can make such a direct contribution to the welfare of others?\u00a0 I mean, I understand that law enforcement has its own stereotypes.\u00a0 Law enforcement carries its own baggage.\u00a0 But for those of us who are privileged to have served in law enforcement capacities, you know, how many people come up to you in your lifetime hugging you and crying because you\u2019ve saved the life of their child?\u00a0<\/p>\n

Bernard Melekian:\u00a0 Well, not too often. And I think your experience was probably unique or–although I suspect if I was on the questioning end of this interview, I would imagine that more people had complained to you than that family that hugged you and thanked you for your service. I think all–very often that part of what happens is that police officers intervene in people\u2019s lives usually under negative circumstances.\u00a0 Usually they\u2019re either, you know, stopping you for apparently no reason, or a reason that may not be clear, or you\u2019re being issued a citation that you clearly don\u2019t deserve, or you\u2019re–you\u2019ve been the victim of a crime.\u00a0 And the officer\u2019s there to take a report.\u00a0 But there\u2019s not a sense that the officer can do anything tangible.\u00a0 I think that–I think that one of the things that police work has done, and needs to do a better job of, is marketing itself and marketing what it is that men and women do 24 hours a day, 7 days a week across this country in events large and small to make their community safer.\u00a0<\/p>\n

Len Sipes:\u00a0 And that\u2019s the heart and soul of COPS, is it not?\u00a0 The concept of connecting with the community, the idea of making sure that partners are involved, making sure that the community is involved and making sure that everybody is connected, everybody is interdependent, and the community is not out there on their own.\u00a0 The law enforcement agency\u2019s not out there on their own.\u00a0 They\u2019re interconnected.\u00a0 They\u2019re talking.\u00a0 They\u2019re solving problems together.\u00a0 That\u2019s the heart and soul of the COPS concept, is it not?\u00a0<\/p>\n

Bernard Melekian:\u00a0 Absolutely.\u00a0 And I\u2019ve been in this business long enough, 37 years as you mentioned, to have come up under what was called the professional model of policing, which was that–which was an arm\u2019s length sort of just the facts Jack Webb \u201cDragnet\u201d model, which actually was very deliberately focused on not connecting with the community, because the focus really was to deal with how to make sure that professionalism implied absolute objectivity.\u00a0 It became apparent as the years went forward, and I came in this business in 1973, became apparent as the years went forward that that system wasn\u2019t working.\u00a0 And there\u2019s a whole long laundry list, really, of reasons why it didn\u2019t work.\u00a0 But it became clear that it–we needed to connect with the community in a way that we did not, to use or word, partnerships, I\u2019ve always believed that community policing at the end of the day was really nothing more than building relationships and solving problems.\u00a0 And it\u2019s something the police officers do quite well.\u00a0 I would argue and have argued that for most of the agencies in this country, particularly rural agencies, and small towns, that they do community policing by default and always have, and probably just didn\u2019t call it that.\u00a0<\/p>\n

Len Sipes:\u00a0 Well that\u2019s been my point for years, Bernard.\u00a0 It is, you know, the interesting part about it is that we have been doing community policing for years.\u00a0 So there\u2019s an awful lot of police officers out there, who have spent time with community organizations, spent time with gangs in the street, spent time walking, talking.\u00a0 And from that, developing good leads as to who was doing the bad stuff.\u00a0 But there has to be a trust relationship between–it all comes down–it doesn\u2019t come down to the U.S. Department of Justice.\u00a0<\/p>\n

Bernard Melekian:\u00a0 No.\u00a0<\/p>\n

Len Sipes:\u00a0 It doesn\u2019t come down to the chief of police.\u00a0 It comes down to that individual police officer, whoever he or she may be, willing to interact with the community on a very personal level, not out of an officer friendly public relations approach.\u00a0 We\u2019re doing this because it works, correct?\u00a0 We\u2019re doing this because it solves crimes.\u00a0 We\u2019re doing this because it solves problems.\u00a0 So that\u2019s the heart and soul of the COPS office, correct?\u00a0<\/p>\n

Bernard Melekian:\u00a0 Absolutely.\u00a0 And I think there\u2019s this picture, this stereotype of what community policing is, that it\u2019s–we all go to the–the officers go to the neighborhood barbeque, and everyone holds hands and sings kum ba ya.\u00a0<\/p>\n

Len Sipes:\u00a0 Right.\u00a0<\/p>\n

Bernard Melekian:\u00a0 But the reality is, and that may be a piece of it, but the reality is, for example that I guarantee you that if I look at a department that has a high crime solvability rate, particularly crimes of violence, I guarantee you that they have a solid community policing program going on because those detectives and those line officers have relationships in the community, have relationships with people who have information.\u00a0 And not only have the information, but trust the officers and trust the department enough to give that information up.\u00a0<\/p>\n

Len Sipes:\u00a0 We live in a CSI world.\u00a0 Too many people watch all these programs at night.\u00a0 My wife–I drive her crazy because I cannot watch them in any way, shape or form because their reality, the television realty is so distant from the reality on the street.\u00a0 And I think what you just said, it\u2019s correct.\u00a0 The vast majority of what is accomplished is accomplished not through neutron activation analysis, not through fingerprints, not through DNA, not through CSI investigators.\u00a0 The vast majority of crimes are solved because that police officer has good, solid connections with that community.\u00a0 That detective has good solid connections with the community.\u00a0 Would you agree with that or disagree?\u00a0<\/p>\n

Bernard Melekian:\u00a0 I would agree with a caveat.\u00a0 I absolutely agree that the relationships are critical.\u00a0 And I have believed that and attempted to practice that throughout my career.\u00a0 I don\u2019t know whether it\u2019s unfortunate or not, but the–certainly the state of the evidence required today to bring a case to trial, and to obtain a conviction has been–that bar has been raised significantly.\u00a0 And in some ways, programs like CSI have contributed to that because the people who serve on juries have watched those programs as well.\u00a0\u00a0<\/p>\n

Len Sipes:\u00a0 Right.\u00a0<\/p>\n

Bernard Melekian:\u00a0 And they have an expectation of what it is that they\u2019re going to see-<\/p>\n

Len Sipes:\u00a0 Right.\u00a0<\/p>\n

Bernard Melekian:\u00a0 –when they get to the courtroom.\u00a0 And if they don\u2019t see it, or they don\u2019t see some version of it, most prosecutors will tell you that the risk of an acquittal starts to climb.\u00a0<\/p>\n

Len Sipes:\u00a0 Are the juries stuck with us.\u00a0 We\u2019re just regular John Doe and Jane Doe shmucks.\u00a0 We\u2019re not the very pretty, very good looking, very well educated, very well funded–<\/p>\n

Bernard Melekian:\u00a0 Very articulate and–<\/p>\n

Len Sipes:\u00a0 Very articulate, very glib–did I say young and extremely well dressed detective, who solves–<\/p>\n

Bernard Melekian:\u00a0 Right.\u00a0<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: –crimes within a half an hour.\u00a0 That\u2019s television.\u00a0<\/p>\n

Bernard Melekian:\u00a0 Right.\u00a0<\/p>\n

Len Sipes:\u00a0 The juries are stuck with you and I.\u00a0 And we\u2019re just regular–<\/p>\n

Bernard Melekian:\u00a0 And their computers, I\u2019ve noticed, are never down.\u00a0<\/p>\n

Len Sipes:\u00a0 Yes, and they always have everything.\u00a0 I mean they roll up with more equipment than I\u2019ve seen in a lifetime.\u00a0 Now the COPS office does what?\u00a0 I mean, let\u2019s set that up.\u00a0 I mean you guys basically set the standard for the country in terms of what community policing is.\u00a0 And we go from there please?\u00a0<\/p>\n

Bernard Melekian:\u00a0 Well, I think it\u2019s important to–as we have this discussion, to look quickly at the history of the COPS office.\u00a0 And the COPS office came into existence in 1994.\u00a0 It was–its purpose was to advance community policing, a concept that had been born out of the broken windows theory and about a recognition, particularly in the nation\u2019s urban centers that relationships with the police and the community, particularly the minority community was not what it should be, and to try to make some strides in that.
\nThe–under President Clinton and under then Senator Biden, the office was brought into existence.\u00a0 And its purpose was to advance community policing.
\nAt the same time, because if you recall in the \u201990\u2019s, the crime rate was so significant, there was also a pledge that that office would put 100,000 additional officers on the streets of America–\u00a0<\/p>\n

Len Sipes:\u00a0 Right.\u00a0<\/p>\n

Bernard Melekian:\u00a0 –for the purpose of making America\u2019s community safer.\u00a0<\/p>\n

Len Sipes:\u00a0 Which you essentially did, the office did.\u00a0<\/p>\n

Bernard Melekian:\u00a0 And the office did do that.\u00a0 Unfortunately, or the fortunate part was that it worked.\u00a0 Crime did go down.\u00a0 And I happen to–and while there\u2019s a great deal of sort of back and forth about why crime went down in the 90\u2019s, I am a very big adherent of the concept that cops count.\u00a0 Cops do make a difference.\u00a0 And that those 100,000 cops were in large measure responsible for that crime reduction, not the only reason, but certainly one of.\u00a0<\/p>\n

Len Sipes:\u00a0 Okay.\u00a0<\/p>\n

Bernard Melekian:\u00a0 However, the–I think then the view of the COPS office shifted from a focus on community policing, to a focus on hiring.\u00a0 And–<\/p>\n

Len Sipes:\u00a0 Right.\u00a0<\/p>\n

Bernard Melekian: –I think most of America\u2019s law enforcement, sheriffs and detectives and political leaders have come to see it as sort of what I only half jokingly call the federal ATM machine.\u00a0 And if you can figure out what the–<\/p>\n

Len Sipes:\u00a0 I\u2019m sorry.\u00a0 That\u2019s a great line.\u00a0<\/p>\n

Bernard Melekian:\u00a0 If you can figure out the PIN number, you can get some police officers out of it.\u00a0 And that was only part of the case.\u00a0 And I think sort of fast forwarding to 2009, where–and I have to tell you in 37 years, I have never seen, I\u2019ve seen the economy rise and fall.\u00a0 I\u2019ve seen problems as we all have.\u00a0 I have never seen the devastation to local law enforcement that this economic collapse brought about.\u00a0<\/p>\n

Len Sipes:\u00a0 Totally agreed.\u00a0 It is happening throughout the country.\u00a0<\/p>\n

Bernard Melekian:\u00a0 Absolutely.\u00a0<\/p>\n

Len Sipes:\u00a0 I just read in the Chicago papers about 450 state troopers in Illinois being laid off.\u00a0 Every day, because I–<\/p>\n

Bernard Melekian:\u00a0 Right.\u00a0<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: –subscribe to three newspaper services, every–and Google alerts.\u00a0 And every day, all that–all those articles from throughout the country are pushed towards me.\u00a0 And I would say at least 20 percent to 30 percent of them deal with budget cuts.\u00a0 And what\u2019s happening in the criminal justice system throughout the country is literally devastating.\u00a0<\/p>\n

Bernard Melekian:\u00a0 Yeah.\u00a0 The irony is that we as a profession, we as a society, I think, had started to make some great strides, and were really positioning ourselves over the next 10 to 20 years to do something very strategic.\u00a0 And instead, most chiefs and sheriffs and I\u2019m sure court administrators and district attorneys and public defenders, no one came in this business to do less.\u00a0 Everybody came into the criminal justice system to do more, to make it better, to make society better, whatever your–whatever approach–wherever you come from on that.
\nAnd instead, they\u2019re faced with this need to cut back.\u00a0 Well, in 2009, in addition to the normal COPS hiring money, the Recovery Act funds were added to that.\u00a0 And so, the COPS office gave out just over a billion dollars in hiring grants.\u00a0<\/p>\n

Len Sipes:\u00a0 That\u2019s a lot of money.\u00a0<\/p>\n

Bernard Melekian:\u00a0 In fiscal year 2009.\u00a0 It is a lot of money, but the downside was, or the other side of that coin was that there were over $8 billion in requests.\u00a0 We funded 1043 law enforcement agencies.\u00a0 We–out of–over 7,000 agencies that filed requests.\u00a0 So clearly, the gap between the need and the resources to meet that need is huge.\u00a0<\/p>\n

Len Sipes:\u00a0 We\u2019re halfway through the program.\u00a0 Bernard Melekian, he is the director of the United States Department of Justice Office of Community Oriented Policing services COPS program.\u00a0 Now both of you are smiling.\u00a0 Did I blow the last name?\u00a0 Am a constantly blowing the last name?\u00a0<\/p>\n

Bernard Melekian:\u00a0 Melekian.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes:\u00a0 Melekian.\u00a0 I\u2019m sorry.\u00a0 And then I\u2019ll get–<\/p>\n

Bernard Melekian:\u00a0 All right, I will say that your pronunciation is the most common.\u00a0<\/p>\n

Len Sipes:\u00a0 Well, now I\u2019m going to get my dozen emails from, particularly from the New York City area, going Leonard, once again, you proved that you cannot get a name correctly.\u00a0 Okay, so www.cops.usdoj.gov.\u00a0 And the idea here is that not only do you, the COPS office, continue to fund positions in law enforcement, but you continue to provide some sense of moral guidance as to where the law enforcement community should be going.\u00a0 And consequently, the rest of us in the criminal justice system, where the community should be going in terms of its relationships to the community.\u00a0<\/p>\n

Bernard Melekian:\u00a0 Well, my hope is that, and my belief is that American law enforcement does not need Washington to provide a moral compass for how they serve the community.\u00a0 What I think we do is to help articulate what community policing is, and how those federal resources should best be used.
\nAs I said, I think there\u2019s this view of the COPS office as a hiring arm of the federal government.\u00a0 I–what I want people to–sheriffs and police chiefs and elected officials across this country to realize is that we are not going to solve the economic challenges that the cities and counties of this country face.\u00a0 And we ought not to be viewed that way.\u00a0 What we can do, and what we will do is to provide three or four year problem solving grants.\u00a0 In other words, what is it in your community, what challenges are you facing?\u00a0 Is it gangs?\u00a0 Is it– I just came from a meeting in El Paso of the southwest border sheriffs who face, you know, a unique–<\/p>\n

Len Sipes:\u00a0 A lot of problems.\u00a0<\/p>\n

Bernard Melekian:\u00a0 –set of challenges–<\/p>\n

Len Sipes:\u00a0 Yeah.\u00a0<\/p>\n

Bernard Melekian:\u00a0 –that really are unique to American law enforcement.\u00a0 Those are specific community problems that the hiring of additional personnel to address those problems is exactly what the COPS office was designed to do.
\nAdding to that, I think as we go forward, is to encourage agencies, and I think the economy is going to do this, to encourage agencies to enter into regional projects and to enter into regional collaborations and partnerships.\u00a0<\/p>\n

Len Sipes:\u00a0 Bernard, we\u2019ve been talking a lot about the money that the COPS office provides.\u00a0 And–but isn\u2019t this more an issue about telling the rest of us, instructing the rest of us, helping the rest of us in the field understand what is important, what works, what doesn\u2019t work in terms of community oriented policing?\u00a0<\/p>\n

Bernard Melekian:\u00a0 Yes, I think it is.\u00a0 I mean, I think one of the things, community policing by definition is unique, is unique to the community that it serves.\u00a0 What works in Brooklyn, Iowa is probably completely different than Brooklyn, New York.\u00a0 And I think it has to be shaped that way.\u00a0 I think so one of the things that we\u2019ve tried to be clear on, the COPS office historically has never attempted to tell agencies what they should do, what community policing was for them.\u00a0 But I think we do have an obligation to search out evidence based practices, look for best practices, share that information, and structure our funding mechanism, so that they become goals to strive for.\u00a0<\/p>\n

Len Sipes:\u00a0 Right.\u00a0 But the best practices, I mean, there are–there\u2019s got to be some sense of a collective whole of knowledge in terms of look, we both know, and we talked about it at the beginning of the program, stoic cops who don\u2019t communicate with the community are people who don\u2019t solve a lot of crimes.\u00a0 There\u2019s got to be some level of communication with the community.\u00a0 And unless that level of communication is there, community oriented policing doesn\u2019t work, correct?\u00a0<\/p>\n

Bernard Melekian:\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 And I think–I think the–it needs to go beyond that.\u00a0 I think it needs to be a–that communications piece has to be combined with a level of technical competence.\u00a0 And by technical competence, I refer to culturally technical, as well as sort of instrumentally technical.
\nPolicing in America\u2019s communities large and small today is far more complex than when I came in to this business.\u00a0 We can talk about and should talk about issues of race and ethnicity, for example.\u00a0 But when I–in the 1970\u2019s, that was really America–when America talked about race, they talked about black and white.\u00a0 In the department that I came from in California, there were 23 languages spoken in the school district.\u00a0 How do you communicate when you can\u2019t speak the language?\u00a0 And you clearly are not going to be able to simply do that by hiring a certain number of people who can speak a particular dialect.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes:\u00a0 Right.<\/p>\n

Bernard Melekian:\u00a0 There is technology out there that has to be grasped.\u00a0 There are cultural sensitivity issues that have to be grasped.\u00a0 And so the definition of community policing almost by default has become far broader than it was 20 years ago.\u00a0 The COPS office wants to help and can help agencies identify resources, what are other departments doing, what have other departments done.\u00a0 We do provide training and technical materials, but we\u2019ve also said if you\u2019re going to hire police officers to interact with your community to advance community policing, then we\u2019re–we want to know exactly how you\u2019re going to do that.\u00a0 We want to measure it.\u00a0 Hiring officers is an output.\u00a0 Achieving community policing is an outcome.\u00a0 We\u2019re striving for outcomes.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes:\u00a0 But in essence, once again, it is the community policing, the heart and soul of it.\u00a0 I mean, you have a debate in this country right now in terms of, you know, a problem oriented policing, problem solving policing.\u00a0 You\u2019re talking about targeting high risk offenders, which is something that we do with the Metropolitan Police Department here in Washington D.C., where we target high risk offenders, who are on our case loads.\u00a0 There\u2019s all sorts of forms of policing, but my guess is community oriented policing is getting away from stove pipes and recognizing once again that without the community support, it doesn\u2019t matter what we do.\u00a0 I mean, is that a reality or not?\u00a0 I mean, we have to have the community support to be effective.\u00a0 And through community policing, we use whatever mechanisms are available to get that community support.<\/p>\n

Bernard Melekian:\u00a0 I think you\u2019ve touched on a very important point.\u00a0 First of all, the community support is critical.\u00a0 If we don\u2019t have community support, then you simply have an army of occupation.\u00a0 And that, you know, we don\u2019t have enough police officers or the–nor is that a particularly effective way to, you know, to do business.
\nHaving said that, all the things that you mentioned are simply styles, in my opinion, styles of providing community policing.\u00a0 Problem oriented policing is very effective.\u00a0 There\u2019s a concept that\u2019s come out of Los Angeles called predictive policing.\u00a0 That\u2019s got some interesting possibilities to go with it.
\nThere\u2019s a model out of Providence, Rhode Island, which I think is really where the future of policing is likely to go, called the Teaching Police Department, which pairs a department with an academic institution for the purposes of studying what that organization is doing, identifying what works, and what doesn\u2019t work.\u00a0 And if it does work, why is it working?\u00a0 And then, share that with the field as a whole.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes:\u00a0 Right.<\/p>\n

Bernard Melekian:\u00a0 The COPS office can facilitate that.\u00a0 As departments want to undertake experimental efforts, for example, to try to address specific community problems, not again, Washington\u2019s not going to make any effort to say this is what you should do.\u00a0 But if you\u2019re going to try this, we want to be able to measure it.\u00a0 And if it works, we want to share it with the rest of the country.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes:\u00a0 Right, but do we not have that collective source of knowledge, though?\u00a0 I mean, when I worked for the Department of Justice\u2019s clearinghouse as the senior specialist for crime prevention, it was my job to figure out what was happening in Albuquerque, and what was happening in Albany, and what was happening in San Francisco and whatever was working, and to build either documents or a collection of resources or referral sources.\u00a0 So when another police department came in and said I\u2019m interested in, oh, I don\u2019t know, anti-burglary programs.\u00a0 I can say, hey, he–these four cities have really interesting programs.\u00a0 Go and talk to them.\u00a0 I mean, there\u2019s–somebody\u2019s got to be at the center of all of this, dispensing the collective wisdom of what\u2019s happening in the country.<\/p>\n

Bernard Melekian:\u00a0 You\u2019re absolutely right about that.\u00a0 And that really is what NIJ, National Institute of Justice has done a pretty good job of doing that.\u00a0 But the fact of the matter is that most local practitioners very often because they\u2019re–what they\u2019re dealing with is so immediate, and so seemingly unique to their community, that they may not even be aware of the resources that are out there.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes:\u00a0 Right.<\/p>\n

Bernard Melekian:\u00a0 And one of the things that Attorney General Holder has been very clear about is wanting to break down those stovepipes, and wanting to build mechanisms, so that information is available across the board.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes:\u00a0 Right.<\/p>\n

Bernard Melekian:\u00a0 And part of the COPS office mandate in my opinion is to share with the field where those, not only what\u2019s out there, but where they can go do their own research.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes:\u00a0 And it\u2019s interesting because I totally agree with you, by the way, is that I\u2019m not quite sure sitting in Washington, D.C. for probably a good part of my career is not, you know, is nothing comes out of me or anybody else, that\u2019s particularly wonderful in terms of knowledge.\u00a0 All we do is suck up the knowledge of the experiences of what\u2019s happening at the local level, and share it with others.\u00a0 I mean, it\u2019s really what\u2019s happening in the cities and the counties and the states throughout this country.\u00a0 And they push it to us.\u00a0 And we somehow, some way get the word out about what they\u2019re doing.
\nThe ideas, the true innovation in law enforcement is not coming from D.C.\u00a0 It\u2019s coming from the individual police departments.<\/p>\n

Bernard Melekian:\u00a0 That\u2019s correct.\u00a0 And one of the goals that I have for the COPS office is that all too often, those agencies that do unique groundbreaking effective kind of things all too often you find that when the chief leaves, so does that particular program.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes:\u00a0 And why is that?\u00a0 Why is it that leaders, when they transition, a new person comes in and he wants to put his or her own stamp on the program.\u00a0 There is no state of the art in terms of community based policing, where the person comes in and says oh, obviously, I need to continue doing what my predecessor did.\u00a0 Why is that?<\/p>\n

Bernard Melekian:\u00a0 Well, I think one of the things that we–and one of the goals the COPS office is to really institutionalize community policing and community policing practices.\u00a0 You know, one of the–in what I thought was the–a groundbreaking book, \u201cGood to Great,\u201d Jim Collins talked about what makes a truly great organization.\u00a0 And one of the things that he talked about was the fact that you have to–in order for an organization to consider itself great.\u00a0 It has to be able to sustain its growth or sustain its success, whatever you\u2019re measuring through at least one change of CEO, one change of leadership.
\nBecause if you don\u2019t do that, then the leader may have been very effective, but the program was a function of his or her leadership, and not a function of the idea.\u00a0 One of the reasons that I\u2019m so intrigued by the Teaching Policing Department model is if we can measure a program, if we can find ways to evaluate groundbreaking programs that work, and share them with the field in kind of a personality neutral way, I think we may be able to get buy-in, not just from the executive level, which is traditionally where sort of creative, progressive thinking at least on the surface seems to start, but really get it down to the middle management and first line supervision level, which will accomplish two things.\u00a0 One, it means it actually get done because people are invested in it.\u00a0 And two, it will mean that the police chiefs of 10 years from now are invested in this kind of vetting.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes:\u00a0 So in the final minutes of the program, this is what I\u2019m hearing.\u00a0 COPS is an arm of the U.S. Department of Justice that seems to do two things.\u00a0 That seems to A, provide money to hire police officers or to fund specific programs that are truly innovative, and B, provide the leadership in terms and then to share the experience of what\u2019s happening with law enforcement agencies throughout the country.\u00a0 So whatever good things Rochester, New York is doing can be replicated in Albuquerque, New Mexico.\u00a0 Is that the heart and soul of COPS?<\/p>\n

Bernard Melekian:\u00a0 Absolutely.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes:\u00a0 Okay.\u00a0 So it is the–that sharing part of it, and that funding part of it that most people who are listening to this radio program can go to your website, www.cops.usdoj.gov.\u00a0 And on the website, what I read and in terms of your magazine, the COPS magazine, through your website and through your magazine, which is free, by the way, for anybody who wants to obtain it through the website, they can get a sense of what the state of the art is in terms of community based policing?<\/p>\n

Bernard Melekian:\u00a0 Yes, that\u2019s correct.\u00a0 If you go to that website, and we\u2019re really working very hard on updating that website and bringing the best–links to the best practices, both in terms of police departments and academic institutions in our regional community policing institutes across the country, and having the resource available for the field.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes:\u00a0 Okay, so the website, the magazine is a point of dissemination.\u00a0 And the philosophically community based policing is not–doesn\u2019t have a national definition.\u00a0 Every police department for themselves have gone to figure out what community based policing means for them.\u00a0 If there is an issue in terms of the Spanish speaking community, and that happens to be the priority and lots of crimes are being committed there, and you\u2019re not getting the cooperation, that police department\u2019s not getting the cooperation, then for that particular police department, outreach efforts to the Spanish speaking community, and sitting down and talking with them and figuring out common strategies to approach a crime problem, that would be their strategy.
\nIn another city, it could be burglaries and figuring out the best way of communicating with citizens in that area about burglary, so they can get the information they can need to catch perpetrators.\u00a0 I think–<\/p>\n

Bernard Melekian:\u00a0 I think if I could just interrupt for a second.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes:\u00a0 Please.<\/p>\n

Bernard Melekian:\u00a0 I think there is a–I think in a way, there–hopefully going forward from this point, is that there is a national definition of community policing and that\u2019s building relationships and solving problems.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes:\u00a0 Right.<\/p>\n

Bernard Melekian:\u00a0 What–and the examples that you cited are exactly on point.\u00a0 In each of those cases, in spite of probably different geographical locations and certainly different sort of tactical concerns, at the end of the day, that police department needs to build relationships, whether it\u2019s with the Spanish speaking community in one city with it\u2019s–whether it\u2019s a group of effective neighbors–affected neighbors in another city, there has to be a relationship there.\u00a0 There has to be a line of communication there.
\nNow then we get into the issue of how do we do that?\u00a0 That\u2019s really tactics.\u00a0 But the strategy is to build relationships and solve that community\u2019s problem.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes:\u00a0 And it is also, in the final analysis, as we close out the program, there\u2019s a larger sense that we within the criminal justice system, we can have an impact.\u00a0 And we do have an impact.\u00a0 There\u2019s no doubt that law enforcement has an impact on the–<\/p>\n

Bernard Melekian:\u00a0 Absolutely.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes:\u00a0 –quality of life and criminal activity within an area. But in the final analysis, we\u2019re going to be–law enforcement is going to be much more effective if we have the full cooperation and blessing of the community.\u00a0 And the only way we have the full blessing and cooperation of the community is to work with them as cooperatively as we can.<\/p>\n

Bernard Melekian:\u00a0 And really to help neighbors and residents realize that they are the solution, that ultimately, it is their commitment to their quality of life and their willingness to work with the department to achieve that, that becomes the essence of community policing.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes:\u00a0 Ladies and gentlemen, this is D.C. Public Safety.\u00a0 Our guest today has been Bernard Melekian.\u00a0 He is the Executive Director–the Director, rather, of the U.S. Department of Justice Office of Community Oriented Policing Services, commonly known as COPS.\u00a0 The website www.cops.usdoj.gov.\u00a0 Once again, we really appreciate all of the letters, all of the phone calls, all of the emails, all of the comments in the comment box, all the interaction that you provide us in terms of what you would like to see in the show.\u00a0 You can feel free, once again, to reach me directly via email.\u00a0 Leonard, leonard.sipes@csosa.gov<\/a>.\u00a0 We\u2019re up to 230,000 requests on a monthly basis for the radio show, television show. The blog and transcripts, and we are really in your debt for all of the interaction that you have with us.\u00a0 And we want you to have a very, very pleasant day.<\/p>\n

[Audio Ends]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Welcome to DC Public Safety \u2013 radio and television shows on crime, criminal offenders and the criminal justice system. See http:\/\/media.csosa.gov for our television shows, blog and transcripts. We now average 200,000 requests a month. This radio program is available at http:\/\/media.csosa.gov\/podcast\/audio\/2010\/06\/an-interview-with-bernard-melekian-director-us-department-of-justice-office-of-community-oriented-policing-services\/ We welcome your comments or suggestions at leonard.sipes@csosa.gov or at Twitter at http:\/\/twitter.com\/lensipes. […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"nf_dc_page":"","_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[23,53,15,41],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-609","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-audiopodcast","category-budget-issues","category-interviewswithpolicymakers","category-police","entry"],"aioseo_notices":[],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","jetpack_shortlink":"https:\/\/wp.me\/pBoKk-9P","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack_likes_enabled":true,"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/media.csosa.gov\/podcast\/transcripts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/609","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/media.csosa.gov\/podcast\/transcripts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/media.csosa.gov\/podcast\/transcripts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/media.csosa.gov\/podcast\/transcripts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/media.csosa.gov\/podcast\/transcripts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=609"}],"version-history":[{"count":5,"href":"https:\/\/media.csosa.gov\/podcast\/transcripts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/609\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":1511,"href":"https:\/\/media.csosa.gov\/podcast\/transcripts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/609\/revisions\/1511"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/media.csosa.gov\/podcast\/transcripts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=609"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/media.csosa.gov\/podcast\/transcripts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=609"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/media.csosa.gov\/podcast\/transcripts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=609"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}