http:\/\/media.csosa.gov\/podcast\/audio\/2014\/02\/employing-ex-offenders\/<\/a><\/p>\n[Audio Begins]<\/p>\n
Len Sipes: From the nation\u2019s capital this is DC Public Safety. I\u2019m your host Leonard Sipes. Ladies and gentlemen, the show topic today is Employing Ex-Offenders. We have two people under our supervision here at the Court Services and Offender Supervision Agency and a Job Development Specialist to talk about this whole process of employing people caught up in the criminal justice system. We have Kenyan Blakely; he is with the Department of Human Resources, the DC Department of Human Resources as a Support Services Assistant. We have Kenneth Trice; he is with the Greater Mount Calvary Holy Church. He is with Facilities. They\u2019re doing facilities and maintenance. And we have Tony Lewis, star of the Washington Post and lots of other media. He is a Job Development Specialist here at the Court Services and Offenders Supervision Agency, www.csosa.gov, www.csosa.gov. On the front page of our website we have radio shows, televisions shows, trying to entice employers into a discussion called crowd sourcing in the social media world, to try to gain some sense of perspective as to what it takes for us to employ or to prompt the employment of people under our supervision. On any given day we have 14,000 people under our supervision, any given year, 23,000, but half are unemployed. Tony Lewis, your job is a Job Development Specialist for CSOSA, welcome.<\/p>\n
Tony Lewis: Welcome. I mean, thank you for having me Mr. Sipes.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes: I really appreciate all of you guys being here to have this discussion, extraordinary important discussion. Tell me how easy is it to convince employers to hire people under our supervision.<\/p>\n
Tony Lewis: It\u2019s not that easy. It\u2019s pretty difficult actually. You know, the analogy that I always use is it\u2019s like as if I have a store, right, and all the merchandise in my store is perceived to be broken and I\u2019m trying to convince the customer to buy it because I have faith in it, I know that it works, but to them they feel like it\u2019s broken. So typically that\u2019s what I do every day all day is trying to convince people that something they perceive to be broken is not necessarily broke and it actually can get the job done. And I think we have a lot of talent in terms of our client base. We have a lot of motivated people, talented people that are ready to go into the workforce.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes: Now, I have been doing this, doing radio and television about the criminal justice system for about 20 years. I have spoken to hundreds of people under supervision, who used to be under supervision who are currently employed and their lives are going along just peachy.<\/p>\n
Tony Lewis: Sure.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes: We know that the research indicates that when they\u2019re employed, the better they do under supervision, the less they recidivate, the less they come back into the criminal justice system. It\u2019s a win-win situation for everybody. You and I have both talked to hundreds and hundreds of people who have successfully made that transformation from the prison system to being good citizens through employment. So what\u2019s wrong with our message? What are we not doing that we should be doing to prompt the people, employers, to hire people under our supervision?<\/p>\n
Tony Lewis: To me I think we are taking all the proper steps. I think what happens is that there\u2019s a stigma associated with people that have been incarcerated, previously incarcerated. And so when one person or two people, you know, so to speak, that happens to get an opportunity and blow their opportunity or reoffend, I think it can never\u2014it has a much more significant impact than a hundred people that do it the right people. And I think that\u2019s the issue more so than us not taking the proper\u2014cause we\u2019re preparing our offenders that we supervise, we\u2019re taking them through steps for them to prove their commitment, we\u2019re presenting talented and people with the proper skill sets to do the job and I think hiring policies across the board is probably the biggest barrier. Because hiring policies take like such a broad stroke in terms of have you ever been convicted of a felony or, you know, it\u2019s no case-by-case basis. People are not looked at as individuals. They\u2019re grouped into these pools and they\u2019re put into groups where these stereotypes are really prompted by one or two individuals that made bad decisions. And so I think we\u2019ve got to chip away at the hiring policies and maybe look to redefine those.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes: Www.csosa.gov is the website. On the website you\u2019re going to find radio and television shows, again, designed to prompt that conversation with the employment community. We\u2019re inviting people to come and talk to us and give us information in terms of what it is that we can do in terms of making it easier for people to hire people under our supervision. I want to go to our two gentlemen who are currently under supervision. And we have Kenyan Blakely as I said and Kenneth Trice. Gentleman, either one of you can go and run with this question. So, everybody, not everybody, there\u2019s a lot of people out there who have the stereotype that people who are caught up in the criminal justice system, I\u2019m just not going to deal with them. I\u2019m not going to hire them. I don\u2019t care about them. I\u2019m not going to support programs for them. It\u2019s a little harder when you\u2019re sitting here face-to-face as I\u2019ve talked to literally thousands of people who are doing well, who were once caught up in the criminal justice system, but now they\u2019re doing well. People use the word criminal, well that applies to both of you. They say I\u2019m not going to hire criminals. So I\u2019m going to start off with Kenneth. Are you a criminal, is that how you see yourself?<\/p>\n
Kenneth Trice: No Leonard, I\u2019m not a criminal.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes: Okay.<\/p>\n
Kenneth Trice: I just made bad judgments.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes: Right.<\/p>\n
Kenneth Trice: And now I\u2019m okay.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes: And you\u2019re okay because of why, because of how, what happened? I mean, you\u2019re with one of the greatest faith institutions in Washington, DC, the Greater Mount Calvary Holy Church. I mean, it\u2019s known, not just throughout the District of Columbia, it\u2019s known throughout the country. Is that how you were able to cross that bridge, by working with them?<\/p>\n
Kenneth Trice: No. It came from my CSO.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes: Your Community Supervision Officer?<\/p>\n
Kenneth Trice: Yes.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes: Okay. Otherwise known as Parole and Probation Agents for everybody listening throughout\u2014beyond DC.<\/p>\n
Kenneth Trice: Yes. It started with him. He put me on GPS leg, angel bracelet.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes: Right, Global Positioning System monitoring.<\/p>\n
Kenneth Trice: And then he referred me to the VOTE Unit and from there I went into Project Empowerment and from there I got placed at Greater Mount Calvary. From there I was just in the program and then once my time was up they picked me up, I started as a part-time worker. That phase lasted for maybe four or five months and then they hired me full-time, benefits and everything and now I\u2019m just focused. It\u2019s all about determination and perseverance. You\u2019ve just got to be\u2014you\u2019ve got to know what you want, bottom line. If you feel that you\u2014you\u2019re going to do wrong regardless, its just nature, but you have to I guess overlook it, I guess.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes: What did the job mean to you in terms of crossing that bridge?<\/p>\n
Kenneth Trice: Well, it means a lot. I\u2019m no longer, I mean, I\u2019m still looked at as maybe an offender. I don\u2019t want to call myself a criminal. I\u2019m looked at as an offender but now that I have gainful employment I feel that another employer will hire me. They may overlook my background being as though I\u2019ve been working now.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes: But you believe that you\u2019ve proved yourself, that you have crossed that bridge, you are now a taxpayer, you\u2019re not a tax burden, you are what everybody in society wants you to be.<\/p>\n
Kenneth Trice: Yes sir.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes: Okay, and how does that feel?<\/p>\n
Kenneth Trice: It feels wonderful.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes: And what message would you give to other people who have the opportunity to employ somebody like you?<\/p>\n
Kenneth Trice: Please employ them.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes: And they would do that because of why? They would employ somebody caught up in the criminal justice system for what reason?<\/p>\n
Kenneth Trice: To give them a chance to prove themselves.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes: All right. And Kenyan, Kenyan Blakely, again, working for the Department of Human Resources for DC Government, a Support Services Assistant, the same questions are going to go to you, I mean, these are tough questions. I use the term criminal advisedly. I have heard from employers in the past I\u2019m not going to hire ex-cons, I\u2019m not going to hire criminals and it is like they\u2014what they are meaning is is that everybody falls into one category. They have a mental image of exactly who they are. They have a mental image of the fact that they\u2019re going to create problems for me, thereby; I\u2019m not going to hire them. But then again I sit down with the two of you and I don\u2019t see fangs, I don\u2019t see blood dripping from your teeth, I see just two regular guys who are now doing well partially because of employment, correct or incorrect?<\/p>\n
Kenyan Blakely: Correct.<\/p>\n
Kenneth Trice: Correct.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes: All right, well tell me that. Get closer to the microphone.<\/p>\n
Kenyan Blakely: I\u2019ve always\u2014I\u2019ve had jobs, you know, I\u2019ve been on\u2014probably since prior to being on CSOSA and I went on a bunch of job interviews, went on job interviews this go round and I\u2019ve had people pull me to the side and say your resume is excellent, your work ethic, everything, but it\u2019s just, you know, it\u2019s just that background. You can\u2019t pass that background check or it\u2019s not in my hands, it\u2019s in someone else\u2019s hands and they want to go with\u2014but they took a chance on hiring them. Why you can\u2019t take a chance on hiring me? You have people who have committed no crime ever in life, but their work ethic sucks. So you have to take a chance on someone, why not take a chance with someone who has a lot to loose, but a lot go gain too also. So, you know, it\u2019s give and take with it. Like I\u2019ve had people straight up tell me to my face outside of the office, I want you, I want you for this position, but I can\u2019t bring you in. And they would just tell me, you know, don\u2019t stop looking, and I\u2019ve never stopped looking. I\u2019ve always had two jobs. I\u2019ve always had a part-time job on the weekend and now I have full-time employment. Like I said, I\u2019ve started in the program with Tony a whole, almost a year in the program and I got a phone call and it\u2019s like come upstairs you\u2019re going on an interview. I\u2019m like interview for what? They were like people watch you.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes: That\u2019s great. What does the job mean to you in terms of your ability or inability to return to crime?<\/p>\n
Kenyan Blakely: It was never really\u2014it was choices that we made. Those choices were wrong. I admit those. I\u2019m the first to admit anything that I\u2019ve every done wrong, but now, you know, as a father, I\u2019m a father of two, you know, you just want to be able to not leave them anymore. Not to lose everything that you\u2019ve gained, lose it over and over and over, come home to have nothing, now I\u2019m building to have everything that I lost to have back. You know, I have a daughter that\u2019s six, I have a son that\u2019s 12. I never want to leave them again. I never want them to look up and be like where\u2019s my dad. I can\u2019t talk to him when I want to. I can\u2019t see him. So those are the things that linger in the back of your head at all times. So when I come to work on them days I don\u2019t feel like getting up, those are my get up, let\u2019s go and it\u2019s no holding back, no, oh, it\u2019s cold outside, I don\u2019t feel like getting, no, I\u2019m in there every day.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes: Tony Lewis, we have credits, tax credits\u2014<\/p>\n
Tony Lewis: Yes.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes: For people who do hire people under supervision, we do have a bonding program, there\u2019s a Federal bonding program that mitigates the amount of risk that they have. All of this is available on our website, www.csosa.gov. All right, so from a societal point of view it is extraordinarily important that people who we supervise find work.<\/p>\n
Tony Lewis: Absolutely. It increases public safety for one. Like you spoke about people working are less prone or less likely to break the law and these two gentlemen can attest to that. They\u2019re a representation of many people\u2014the ones that we are able to get employed. And the program that they spoke about is the Transitional Employment Program that we have here at CSOSA. That\u2019s in partnership with the DC Department of Employment Services. Where we basically place individuals in jobs where we pay they salary. It\u2019s a stipend, a subsidized wage, but it gives them an opportunity to audition and so you can see these people for themselves and not just a person on paper that broke the law in the past. And that may be ten years ago, it may be two years ago, it may be 20 years ago, it gives an opportunity for that person to highlight their skillset, learn new skills and it\u2019s for people to see them as human beings and not just a quote, unquote, criminal. And so the beauty of that program is that that\u2019s what it affords to no cost to the employer. Now I know that\u2019s not something that exists all across the country, but when people have an opportunity to see these guys every day and to gauge their work ethic and see their personalities and to know that they\u2019re fathers and things like that, it really helps the employer to see them in a different light.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes: But that\u2019s the thing that always killed me gentleman, and anybody can come into this conversation, is that you can have the image; you can watch the 6:00 news and hear the news about somebody doing something terrible to another human being. You can watch the 6:00 news, the 11:00 news, pick up the newspaper, read the same sort of stuff, there\u2019s a certain point you say to yourself, man, the people involved in this stuff, I\u2019m not going to have anything to do with. I\u2019m going to move as far away as I possibly can from them and I\u2019m just not going to have anything to do with them. But then, again, you sit and talk eyeball-to-eyeball as we\u2019re doing now and you\u2019re just regular guys. You\u2019re not the stereotype that you think of at the 6:00 news. You\u2019re just regular guys.<\/p>\n
Kenneth Trice: Exactly.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes: You\u2019re not the stereotype that you think of at the 6:00 news, you\u2019re just regular guys. How can we transmit that, hey, I\u2019m a regular guy, I just need a chance. I understand I screwed up. I understand I made mistakes, but please do not hold that against me for the rest of my life. How do you transmit that information to people who hire?<\/p>\n
Kenneth Trice: I think a lot of companies need to change their hiring process. Not just to\u2014you\u2019ve got two strikes against you, you have one, either your credit is bad or you\u2019re a criminal. Why should those two things stop you from gaining employment? Like you need employment. If you don\u2019t have employment for people they\u2019ll turn to do other things to a life of crime.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes: They\u2019re going to say, but I\u2019ve got plenty of people who don\u2019t have those backgrounds. I\u2019ve got plenty of people with good credit without a criminal background, why am I going to hire the dude\u2014<\/p>\n
Kenyan Blakely: I got a point for you.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes: Go please.<\/p>\n
Kenyan Blakely: If you have all those people that you work for, do a background check after the fact, a lot of them won\u2019t tell you that they have a criminal past after they\u2019ve been hired. So you will never know if you don\u2019t go back and do a background check every year or so often on an employer. You have employees who\u2019ve been at companies prior to them getting in trouble but the company will never know, but they\u2019ll be like, oh, we don\u2019t\u2014once you have the job it\u2019s okay. What you do before that\u2014<\/p>\n
Len Sipes: Because they get to know you.<\/p>\n
Kenyan Blakely: Exactly.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes: They get to see you as a worker so the criminal background disappears because all they see is a good worker. How do we get people to that point? But hold that thought cause I want to reintroduce everybody. Ladies and gentleman, this is DC Public Safety. We\u2019re talking about employing ex-offenders. We\u2019ve got Tony Lewis, Job Development Specialist with my agency, the Court Services and Offenders Supervision Agency, www.csosa.gov. We have Kenyan Blakely, he is with the Department of Human Resources for the District of Columbia, Support Services Assistant and we have Kenneth Trice, he is with the Greater Mount Calvary Holy Church. He is with Facilities & Maintenance. How we convince, again, you know, get beyond the stereotype, get you in there, sit down, talk to you because all three of us, four of us in the room know that after six months that criminal history disappears. All we have to do is get beyond that point of hiring and that point of success. How do we get to that point?<\/p>\n
Kenyan Blakely: Give people a chance.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes: Okay, but there again, they\u2019re going to say, once again, I\u2019ve got some people here without a criminal history and I\u2019ve got some people here with a great credit background. If I\u2019ve got to give somebody a chance, I\u2019m going to go with a guy without a criminal history and without a bad credit history. I\u2019m going to increase the odds of a successful employment in their minds by employing the person without the background.<\/p>\n
Kenneth Trice: I think what happens, Mr. Sipes, is that when you find, from a business standpoint, it\u2019s about the bottom line, right.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes: Right.<\/p>\n
Kenneth Trice: So for me as a job developer, my thing is to say I\u2019m not asking for a hand out, I\u2019m here to help you by being able to connect with talent, right, something that\u2019s going to increase your bottom line, going to increase your productivity. And the other part of that is that it\u2019s no way, you know, when you hire whomever, no matter what their background is, you don\u2019t necessarily know what you\u2019re getting. So businesses have to, I think, take a standpoint to say if this person\u2019s crime does not have a rational relationship, so let\u2019s be very clear, we\u2019re not saying if you robbed a bank, you should be able to work at Wells Fargo, right.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes: Or if you\u2019re a sex offender you should be doing daycare, nobody\u2019s saying that.<\/p>\n
Kenneth Trice: Absolutely, no, nobody\u2019s saying that, but if I committed a crime five years ago that has no relationship to the job, why can\u2019t I work there?<\/p>\n
Len Sipes: We have, the bottom line I want to make is that we have good people right now under our supervision; we have 14,000 human beings under our supervision right now, 23,000 human beings under our supervision in any given year. We\u2019ve got people right now ready to go who are not a risk to public safety, who have real skills, who don\u2019t have drug positives, they\u2019re ready to go right now. We can give them tax credits to get them involved in the bonding program, plus they have their Community Supervision Officer, known elsewhere as a Parole and Probation Agent, who can help the employer deal with problems if they come up.<\/p>\n
Kenneth Trice: And a Vocational Development Specialist.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes: And a Vocational Development Specialist and in many cases training that we and the District of Columbia and other cities throughout the country get involved in and plus we have GED programs, we have educational programs, we have job readiness programs. Why would you not come to us if we can deliver a talented person ready to work.<\/p>\n
Kenneth Trice: Sure. And sometimes people that you\u2019re hiring, even if the person\u2019s out of college, sometimes people out of college haven\u2019t necessarily even, in my mind, had the training. I mean, I think about the training that we provide here at CSOSA and I think about, wow, if I had that going into the job market, like if I learned things, I mean, just whether it\u2019s interviewing, whether it\u2019s, you know, just gaining a concept of workplace expectations. I learned that on the fly. We\u2019re preparing people to enter the workforce and stay there through our programming. I mean, you know, and even we\u2019re taking steps to even interface with people pre-release, myself and Mr. Blakely, our first communication started when he was in River\u2019s Correctional Institution via teleconference. And then he met with Whittington and she did what she does and then he got referred from her to the program. Kenny Trice met with Dr. Sutton and she did what she does in terms of prepping him and gauging his readiness and gauging his commitment. Then he got referred to the program. So there\u2019s rigger in terms of what we do because when we present people to the workforce, we\u2019re trying to present someone that we\u2019re going to be confident in, somebody\u2019s that already proven to us that they\u2019re legit and that they\u2019re ready. So it\u2019s not just like, hey, somebody gets off a bus from prison and we\u2019re sending them to you as the employer and saying, hey, you should give them a job. No, we\u2019re taking the proper steps to ensure that whoever we refer to you is somebody that\u2019s going to come in and increase your productivity.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes: Okay, and so, and anybody can jump in on this conversation, don\u2019t hold back. Okay, so, generally speaking, within the District of Columbia, generally speaking, within major cities throughout the country, you have unemployment somewhere around six to eight percent. We have unemployment at 50%.<\/p>\n
Kenneth Trice: Sure.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes: Okay, so all the wonderful things that we\u2019ve just said, bonding programs, tax credits, training, GED, workforce development, you\u2019ve got all that going for us, you\u2019ve got a Job Developer whose going to work with you, you\u2019ve got a Community Supervision Officer, ala, Parole and Probation Agent, but yet you can not escape the numbers, six to eight percent versus 50%. Why is that?<\/p>\n
Kenyan Blakely: I think a lot of people just need to wake up from what they\u2019re doing and really understand that you need gainful employment, like you can\u2019t play with it, I don\u2019t care what it is that you do, but, bottom line, you don\u2019t want to be too old and not be able to get a job. Like me, I just want them to know that I have skills; every day that I go to work I\u2019m showing you my skills.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes: But, bottom line, how many people are there like you?<\/p>\n
Kenyan Blakely: There are a lot. There are a lot.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes: So tell me, how many?<\/p>\n
Kenyan Blakely: I think there are over 20,000 in this city that want to work.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes: All right. So we\u2019ve got thousands of people right now\u2014I can\u2019t speak for everybody in the District, I\u2019m talking about people under our supervision here at CSOSA. We all know the folks. We interact with them every single day.<\/p>\n
Kenyan Blakely: Sure.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes: And we know that some aren\u2019t ready, we know that some are still struggling, we know that some are pulling drug positives, we know that some are hanging out on the corner causing problems.<\/p>\n
Kenneth Trice: Right, but we\u2019re not talking about them.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes: We know that, but we\u2019re not talking about them.<\/p>\n
Kenneth Trice: Yep.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes: We\u2019re not asking for charity.<\/p>\n
Kenyan Blakely: Exactly.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes: Okay, so if we\u2019re tossing them off to the side and we\u2019re talking about people, real grown-ups who are ready to work and who are going to do a good job for you, how many are we talking about?<\/p>\n
Tony Lewis: I think we, in the City, I mean, under supervision I think probably out of your 14,000, I think you probably, strongly, probably half. I\u2019m going to give you 7,000.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes: Seven thousand human beings that aren\u2019t employed that are ready to go. They\u2019re not employed for what reason?<\/p>\n
Tony Lewis: Some people I think they just need a chance or just some people they have to show that they want to work, like the work ethic. Like everybody that comes through the program isn\u2019t going to make it, everybody that comes through CSOSA, we already know isn\u2019t going to make it.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes: Right.<\/p>\n
Tony Lewis: You know, you have those who like, when they come through the door, hey, I\u2019m going to do what I want to do when I want to do it.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes: Right.<\/p>\n
Tony Lewis: Life doesn\u2019t work that way. Until you get that in your head that you\u2019ve got to follow these rules, cause most people, we don\u2019t want to get up and go to work, we want to sit home, you know, you have to work, that\u2019s just it. I have never been the type person that didn\u2019t want to work.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes: Yeah, I\u2019ve never been able to figure out how to get around not working. I\u2019ve been looking for that my entire life and I haven\u2019t found it yet. But, you know, Kenyan, I talked to you, you\u2019re interviewing perfectly, you have bright eye, you know, eye contact, delivering everything perfect, I would hire you in a second.<\/p>\n
Kenyan Blakely: Appreciate that.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes: I would hire you in a second. You know, Kenneth, same way with you. You\u2019re looking at me direct, you\u2019re interviewing well, I would hire you in a second. What is it that I am getting that everybody else is not getting? Everybody else is sitting out there and saying, okay, dude, look they\u2019re caught in the criminal justice system. I already told you I\u2019m not going to hire somebody caught up in the criminal justice system.<\/p>\n
Tony Lewis: Most companies just can\u2019t get past that.<\/p>\n
Kenyan Blakely: It\u2019s that, it\u2019s background.<\/p>\n
Kenneth Trice: The hiring policies, and especially Len, when we\u2019re talking about today\u2019s world, talking about 90% of job searches done via the internet and you have, you know, questions, have you ever been convicted of a felony. And a lot of times you check yes, that\u2019s it for you, that\u2019s an eliminator. It doesn\u2019t matter how long ago it was, it doesn\u2019t matter what you did, it\u2019s like no. And especially, we\u2019re talking about here in the District of Columbia where you have probably the most bustling job market in the country, right, where you\u2019ve got the most moved to place America. People are coming here solely because of the strength of the job market but we have native Washingtonians, we have people under supervision who can\u2019t get a job at all. You know what I mean? It shouldn\u2019t even be an issue but at the end of the day people aren\u2019t being judged on their skillset, they\u2019re being judged just solely based on crime.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes: All right. And there\u2019s a certain point\u2014what we\u2019re saying is is that fundamentally, morally, ethically, that could be wrong, is wrong, but more importantly, we\u2019re saying to a business person, because business hires, does 80% of the hiring, you\u2019re not protecting your bottom line because there are good people that you could be hiring.<\/p>\n
Kenneth Trice: Precisely.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes: You\u2019re not making the money you could be making, you\u2019re not doing as well as you could be doing because we\u2019ve got 7,000 people ready to rock and roll right now.<\/p>\n
Kenneth Trice: So, and 7,000 people, something that Kenyan brought up, that may possibly work harder than your just normal Joe Blow, because they have everything to lose. They\u2019re going to value their job because they know they just can\u2019t go anywhere and get a job.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes: You know, in the 20 years of interviewing people that\u2019s one of the most powerful points is that I\u2019ve got so much to lose I am not going to screw this up.<\/p>\n
Kenneth Trice: Yes.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes: And that\u2019s a powerful incentive, I mean, look, I mean, Kenyan just basically said, I\u2019m not going to leave my kids again.<\/p>\n
Kenneth Trice: Absolutely.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes: And we\u2019re not talking about just people under supervision, we\u2019re talking about the fact that most people under supervision got kids.<\/p>\n
Kenneth Trice: That\u2019s right. Exactly.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes: So we\u2019re not just talking about them, we\u2019re talking about kids. So now instead of the 7,000, let\u2019s times it by two just to be on the average, so now we\u2019re talking about 14,000 human beings.<\/p>\n
Kenneth Trice: Yep.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes: Let alone spouses, you know\u2014<\/p>\n
Kenneth Trice: Sure. Sure.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes: And another 7,000, we\u2019re up to 20,000 people. We\u2019re up to 20,000 people affected and their lives are coming to a halt because you\u2019re saying to yourself, Mr. Employer, this guy ten years ago committed a burglary, I\u2019m not touching him.<\/p>\n
Kenneth Trice: Sure.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes: Is that it? Is it that stark? Is it that real?<\/p>\n
Kenyan Blakely: It\u2019s that real.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes: And what we\u2019ve got to do to get beyond that reality is what gentlemen? How do we convince them?<\/p>\n
Kenyan Blakely: Give them a chance.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes: Give them a chance.<\/p>\n
Kenyan Blakely: Just give them a chance. But like me, for instance, my last interview that I went on, they looked at everything, they asked me questions about it, they went straight to it and I told them if you give me a chance I won\u2019t let you down. Everybody that sat in front of me\u2014there was four people on the panel. I left out, an hour later I got an e-mail, offer letter and everything, you know, just like we\u2019re going to give you a shot. It was two other people and they gave me the shot and I was happy. And to this day they\u2019re still looking at me like, Kenyan, you\u2019re in here. I\u2019m trying, like I don\u2019t want to\u2014like I\u2019ve been at my job almost a year. I come from\u2014my first agency was, as a matter of fact, what was that\u2014the Agency for Public Affairs, and I was under the Mayor\u2019s Office, I worked for Officer of Partnerships and Grant Services and now I work for DC Department of Human Resources. And like I met so many people through the agencies, through District Government and, you know, they don\u2019t know your story until you talk to them and then when you give them some insight they\u2019re like wow, like you came from that to this. Yes, I did. Like a lot of people can\u2019t walk in those shoes.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes: Tony, you\u2019ve got 30 seconds before we have to wrap up. I\u2019m going to give you a chance to close. What do we say to people, what do we say to employers, what do we say to their husbands and wives, what do we say to get them to give people like Kenyan, like Kenneth, a chance.<\/p>\n
Tony Lewis: Bottom line is that we have talented, motivated people that can potentially bring new ideas, can increase your productivity and an overall sense, I think it\u2019s just better for society and our community when we have people gainfully employed. It leads to a safer environment, it leads to a more productive environment and, you know, we need everybody who can help should and I think we\u2019re moving in the right direction and at the same time the people that we supervise also have to be accountable to continue to do the right thing and not reoffend.
\nLen Sipes: Everybody\u2019s got to pull together.<\/p>\n
Tony Lewis: Absolutely.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes: Everybody\u2019s got to row the same boat in the same direction.<\/p>\n
Tony Lewis: Yes sir.<\/p>\n
Len Sipes: All right. Gentleman, I really want to thank you very much for being with us today. It was an extraordinarily important topic. I do want to remind all of our listeners, again, at our website, www.csosa.gov. We have a series of radio and television shows where we talk about this issue of hiring people under supervision. We really do want people to call us, contact us, let us know how we can do a better job of preparing people to be employed with their company. You can always give me a call, 202-220-5616, 202-220-5616. Ladies and gentleman, this is DC Public Safety. We appreciate your comments. We even appreciate your criticisms and we want everybody to have yourselves a pleasant day.<\/p>\n
[Audio Ends]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"
Welcome to \u201cDC Public Safety\u201d \u2013 Radio and television shows, blog and transcripts on crime, criminal offenders and the criminal justice system. The portal site for \u201cDC Public Safety\u201d is http:\/\/media.csosa.gov. Radio Program available at http:\/\/media.csosa.gov\/podcast\/audio\/2014\/02\/employing-ex-offenders\/ [Audio Begins] Len Sipes: From the nation\u2019s capital this is DC Public Safety. I\u2019m your host Leonard Sipes. Ladies […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"nf_dc_page":"","_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[23,9,10,18,21],"tags":[275,99,133,144,76,276],"class_list":["post-1113","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-audiopodcast","category-education","category-employment","category-reentry","category-whatworks","tag-employment","tag-ex-offenders","tag-jobs","tag-offender-reentry","tag-offenders","tag-reentry","entry"],"aioseo_notices":[],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","jetpack_shortlink":"https:\/\/wp.me\/pBoKk-hX","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack_likes_enabled":true,"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/media.csosa.gov\/podcast\/transcripts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1113","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/media.csosa.gov\/podcast\/transcripts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/media.csosa.gov\/podcast\/transcripts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/media.csosa.gov\/podcast\/transcripts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/media.csosa.gov\/podcast\/transcripts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=1113"}],"version-history":[{"count":1,"href":"https:\/\/media.csosa.gov\/podcast\/transcripts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1113\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":1114,"href":"https:\/\/media.csosa.gov\/podcast\/transcripts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1113\/revisions\/1114"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/media.csosa.gov\/podcast\/transcripts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=1113"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/media.csosa.gov\/podcast\/transcripts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=1113"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/media.csosa.gov\/podcast\/transcripts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=1113"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}