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Radio Program available at http:\/\/media.csosa.gov\/podcast\/audio\/2013\/04\/green-corrections-impact-on-cost-savings-and-reentry-national-institute-of-corrections-dc-public-safety\/<\/a><\/p>\n

[Audio Begins]<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: From the nation\u2019s capital this is DC Public Safety. I\u2019m your host, Leonard Sipes. We have a really interesting show today, ladies and gentlemen. We have a show on green corrections which is more than the concept sounds. What we\u2019re talking about is economic development, what we\u2019re talking about is saving millions of dollars for state correctional facilities throughout the United States. We\u2019re also talking about inmate training today and using green corrections as a way of transitioning offenders from the prison system to the larger community. We have via Skype from the State of Washington, Washington Department of Corrections, Dan Pacholke. He is assistant secretary, www.doc.ua.gov. Also, we have Stephanie Davison. She is a senior program officer for FHI360, www.fhi360.org. Again, both Dan and Stephanie are here to talk about green corrections. Dan and Stephanie, welcome to DC Public Safety.<\/p>\n

Dan Pacholke: Thank you.<\/p>\n

Stephanie Davison: Thank you.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: All right. Good. Before we start, what is FHI360, Stephanie?<\/p>\n

Stephanie Davison: FHI is an international development organization dedicated to improving the lives of individuals internationally.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Okay and you\u2019re under contract to the National Institute of Corrections which is the producer of today\u2019s show, Donna Ledbetter, was kind enough to set up this show today. So you’re under contract to the National Institute of Corrections of the US Department of Justice, correct?<\/p>\n

Stephanie Davison: Yes, we\u2019ve coordinated several activities for green corrections through NIC for the last few years.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: All right. Stephanie, the first question goes to you. What in the name of heavens is green corrections?<\/p>\n

Stephanie Davison: Green corrections is a series of programs in which correctional system can operate the prison system to be more environmentally friendly and hopefully save money and then also operate education and training programs for offenders geared toward job placement once they exit.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: And that\u2019s pretty interesting because we\u2019re talking before the program, Dan, that the State of Washington had save, what, well over $3 million by implementing green corrections?<\/p>\n

Dan Pacholke: Yes and between the years 2005 and 2010, we saved about $3.5 million by using basically, you know, environmental greening principles.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: And give me a sense as to what you mean by environmentally friendly principles?<\/p>\n

Dan Pacholke: Well, I mean – I mean some of it comes down to reducing your carbon footprint. We have zero waste garbage sorting centers, composting. We\u2019ve done a lot on different energy packages, strategies to save water, strategies to save waste water, so just in some of those bulk areas about, you know, ways in which you spend money that aren’t wise or unproductive so we\u2019ve reduce a lot of expenditures in those areas and ultimately we\u2019ve asked questions about why we buy things only to throw them away and try to eliminate those items upstream also.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: People don\u2019t understand, Dan, that the correctional systems are like big cities and I don\u2019t know how many prisons that you operate there in the State of Washington but each and every one of them \u2013 when I was with the Maryland Department of Public Safety, we had 23 correctional facilities throughout the state. They all held between 2000 to 3000 individuals. I mean they were operating like little cities so there are, I would imagine, endless opportunities to go green and save any state a tremendous amount of money.<\/p>\n

Dan Pacholke: Absolutely. I mean there\u2019s what, 2.3 million people incarcerated in federal state and county prisons and jails across the country.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Right.<\/p>\n

Dan Pacholke: And as you look at some of these strategies that, you know, as we\u2019ve kind of talk about it, at least a couple of them, you know, we\u2019re giving you examples of a relatively mid-sized prison system so if you apply that you know across the country I mean there\u2019s lots and lots of money that can be saved just in the sense of savings and on top of that you can begin to use prison as a mechanism to assist a community in meeting other needs as well.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Well, it\u2019s an amazing concept. I\u2019m really enjoying this because in this day and age where all of us within the criminal justice system are charged with saving taxpayer dollars. I mean we would do that regardless but nevertheless. I mean this is one way of saving tax paid dollars and providing job training for people coming out of the prison systems. Stephanie Davison, why don\u2019t you tell me a little bit about that concept of training people \u2013 training inmates for jobs in green corrections?<\/p>\n

Stephanie Davison: Right. So training individuals for green jobs is very similar to training individuals for regular jobs. You\u2019re just tweaking what you\u2019ve done.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Right.<\/p>\n

Stephanie Davison: For example, FHI has worked with the State of Minnesota to green their programs in which we worked with their teachers to think about how to use green products and green training concepts\u2026<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Okay.<\/p>\n

Stephanie Davison: \u2026to connect inmates to jobs in green fields after exiting.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: But give me a sense as to what sort of jobs are we talking about.<\/p>\n

Stephanie Davison: Sure [PH] jobs. So almost any job can be made green.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Right.<\/p>\n

Stephanie Davison: A common one would be carpentry. You may be using green cleaning products green finishing materials. You\u2019ll also learn how to produce your products where you create less waste.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Okay. But are there specific training like an electrician, like a plumber, like any other person involved in hard skills. I mean is there green corrections that would lead to a career path?<\/p>\n

Stephanie Davison: It can, yes. There are a lot of green certifications. They’re valued in different ways within different communities throughout the US. For example the US Green Building Council has a lead certificate to do construction in green manners.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Okay.<\/p>\n

Stephanie Davison: That can be great. It requires some time so it\u2019s not necessarily valued in every community.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Right. But I mean there are hard and fast jobs where that inmate can come out into the community and find himself or herself employed as a result of being involved in green corrections.<\/p>\n

Stephanie Davison: Yes. Some of the solid ones would be landscaping.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Okay.<\/p>\n

Stephanie Davison: That\u2019s considered a green job. It\u2019s something you can be trained within the correctional facility especially states like Washington have gardens that could be used to train offenders.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Right.<\/p>\n

Stephanie Davison: And then they can be \u2013 enter those sorts of jobs once they exit.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Okay, Stephanie. Dan is not light up. So you’re going to have to answer this question. Why would the National Institute of Corrections, which is part of the bureau \u2013 Federal Bureau of Prisons, part of the US Department of Justice, why would the National Institute of Corrections care about green corrections? Why would they\u2019d be involved?<\/p>\n

Stephanie Davison: I think there are two reasons. One is it can save the taxpayer\u2019s money\u2026<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Right.<\/p>\n

Stephanie Davison: \u2026and, two, it can have benefits to the offender upon reentry.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Okay.<\/p>\n

Stephanie Davison: There are jobs. There are also some behavioral aspects that we can talk about different programs that can benefit an offender when they leave.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Okay. Talk to me about the behavioral aspects.<\/p>\n

Stephanie Davison: So there are some programs and I\u2019ll let Dan jump into this little bit more such as dog training programs that they\u2019ve learned or from experience can find that offenders within the yard are calmer. There\u2019s less incidence of violence and then when they exit, reentry is often smoother.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Dan, you mentioned in the pre-show about this concept of making safer correctional facilities. In the 14 years that I spent with Maryland Department of Public Safety, our philosophy was anything that made that day productive for that inmate created a safer prison facility. I would imagine you will go along with that thought?<\/p>\n

Dan Pacholke: Absolutely and I believe that\u2019s one of the reasons why NIC is interested. In addition to cost containment and cost savings for reentry, on top of that what you want to do is make for a safe operating environment in the prison both for the staff that work there and the offenders that live there as well. So part of what can be done, I supposed, in the greening effort is to create opportunities for an inmate to contribute and I use that word opportunity to contribute because it\u2019s meaningful activity in the sense \u2013 from the sense of an inmate. So whether it\u2019s dog restoration or training dogs or whether it\u2019s working with endangered species, both plants and animals, or whether or not it\u2019s contributing to scientific research, what the inmates gain from that is the sense that they’re contributing to a broader social need. It\u2019s something your family can benefit from. It\u2019s something the community can benefit from and what we\u2019ve found is that inmates that are involved in those kinds of activities tend to be less likely to violate rules. It makes them more \u2013 a more therapeutic environment in that regard. So it does enhance institutional safety and ultimately begins to change the nature of prisons so that community partners and organization see a prison as a benefit to someone that can contribute to local geographic community needs and there are several states that are doing environmental restoration today.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: How many states are involved in green corrections, either one of you?<\/p>\n

Stephanie Davison: I would say a large proportion of states are involved to one degree or another.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Okay.<\/p>\n

Stephanie Davison: For example, many states are involved just because the governor has set forward executive orders that reduce the set goals for energy reduction over time.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Right and, Dan, give me an honest answer here. I\u2019ve been in the criminal justice system for over 40 years and somebody came to me and said, Leonard, you’re now going to be doing green corrections. I would have sat there and went, eh? What is green corrections? Because the order came down on high from the governor\u2019s office to reduce expenditures but when \u2013 after talking with you and talking with Stephanie, I get the sense that this has major payoffs economically, major payoffs in terms of the safety of the institution, and major payoffs in terms of reentry upon release.<\/p>\n

Dan Pacholke: It does. I mean when you think of corrections, the center of the plate is always like evidence-based practices, doing things that reduce the likelihood that inmates reoffend upon release. Over the last five years, we\u2019ve been in extremely lean economic times nationally…<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Yes.<\/p>\n

Dan Pacholke: \u2026and so we tend to engage in issues that are more on the margin that are complimentary to an evidence-based framework. So on the one hand, its low cost opportunities to program offenders, to get offenders involved in meaningful activity. Engage more offenders to make the prison safer. There is the environmental economics to it. They\u2019re going to reduce the operating cost over a long period of time, over life cycles, and then, of course, you know there is the benefit to the community that kind of goes along with that, the reentry, the job training, the skills upon release. So it\u2019s really complimentary to that framework and it begins to broaden kind of the scope of corrections in a way that we wouldn\u2019t have done in good economic times. I think it is the product of tougher economic times where partners are reaching out for each other in order to accomplish a goal.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: All right. It\u2019s taking lemons and making lemonade.<\/p>\n

Dan Pacholke: Correct.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Yeah, yeah I like that. Now, but help me with this sense and a lot of people that are going to be listening to this program today may not be familiar with the inside of prison systems. I have always maintained that you can walk inside of a prison and either feel that lack of tension or feel the tension almost instantaneously as soon as you walk in through the front door. Feel free to correct me, feel free to disagree, but a lot of the institutions that I\u2019ve walked into in the past that have been based upon a therapeutic environment, based upon the inmates involved in lots of different things, their days are filled with different issues where \u2013 that they find humanizing. You can walk inside of that prison and immediately feel it. You can immediately feel the lack of tension because the inmates there are \u2013 again, they\u2019re involved in constructive activities. I\u2019m getting the sense that some of the things that we\u2019re talking about with green correction fills that bill. Am I right or wrong?<\/p>\n

Dan Pacholke: No, you’re absolutely right and you can certainly, you know, feel the difference in institutions that have a lot of activity than those that don\u2019t in such attention. So, yes, you know green corrections are the philosophy of a sustainable prison. Certainly aids to a much calmer operating tone, a much more pro-social environment, you know, in area that has greater humanity which really is an environment that\u2019s more conducive to the educational, vocational training, or cognitive behavior change\u2026<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Right.<\/p>\n

Dan Pacholke: \u2026 is that the context to prisons begins to change in a humanizing sort of way.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: If all the states of the United States employed green corrections and I am going to come back to you guys for more \u2013 for a larger number of specific examples as to what green corrections is because I\u2019m still a bit confused. I understand landscaping, I understand dealing with animals, I understand mulching, I understand that sort of thing, but I\u2019m getting a sense that it does go a little bit beyond that. I may be missing that but in essence what we\u2019re dealing with here is stakeholder buy in. We\u2019re talking about is that you don\u2019t do this on your own. I would imagine the state of Washington and other states have to reach out to other people to help them implement a green corrections program. Either one of you can talk to me about that?<\/p>\n

Stephanie Davison: So when we worked with several states, they find external partners both from other state agencies and then community-based organizations are critical.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Okay.<\/p>\n

Stephanie Davison: For example, in Maryland, they used the Department of National \u2013 Natural Resources\u2026<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Right.<\/p>\n

Stephanie Davison: \u2026to give inmate opportunities to do restoration projects within their community. That\u2019s critical.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Okay. So they take the prelease offenders and they go out and they do restoration projects.<\/p>\n

Stephanie Davison: Yes.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Okay. Okay. So, again, help me with the cynical side of spending 40 years in the criminal justice system. Okay. So they go out and dig holes and put in trees. I mean but we are talking about the possibility of jobs upon release. So anybody can go out and dig a hole put in a tree.<\/p>\n

Stephanie Davison: Right.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: So help me understand that.<\/p>\n

Stephanie Davison: So they’re learning how to maintain the tree and either an urban forest or a traditional forest over the long term.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Okay.<\/p>\n

Stephanie Davison: So that\u2019s an important skill. Another example in Maryland is right to know they were leaning how to deconstruct an old prison and then they\u2019ll build signs made out of the old bricks.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Really?<\/p>\n

Stephanie Davison: It\u2019s an interesting project.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: And that\u2019s \u2013 and that\u2019s the Maryland Correctional Institute at Jessup?<\/p>\n

Stephanie Davison: Yes.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Yes. That\u2019s the prison you’re talking about.<\/p>\n

Stephanie Davison: Yes, I am.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: I\u2019ve been in there a thousand times under \u2013 under nasty circumstances.<\/p>\n

Stephanie Davison: Yes.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: And I\u2019m so happy when they closed the prison down. So they’re taking the \u2013 their dismantling the prison and they’re doing what with it?<\/p>\n

Stephanie Davison: And they will be using the bricks from the prison to create signs within the community.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: That is neat.<\/p>\n

Stephanie Davison: It\u2019s a cool project and it\u2019s great because the old building won’t be going into the waste stream.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Right.<\/p>\n

Stephanie Davison: And all of those products will be in a very visible way contributing to their community.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Well that\u2019s neat. Maryland should start a buy-a-brick program. This is an authentic brick. You know what we used to call that institution?<\/p>\n

Stephanie Davison: No, I don\u2019t.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: The cut.<\/p>\n

Stephanie Davison: Oh.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Yes and it has a world famous because it was an old prison it was called the cut, some people say he was named after the railroad cut that ran by it and the other people say it was nicknamed the cut because of the all the stabbings at the place. So it has a very, very \u2013 just in case the listeners are remotely interested, it has a very unique background. Ladies and gentlemen we\u2019re doing a show today on green corrections and I find this really interesting. Dan Pacholke, he\u2019s the assistant secretary of the State of Washington Department of Corrections, www.doc.wa.gov. Stephanie Davison, she is a senior program officer with FHI360. It\u2019s www.fhi360.org. They are a contractor to the National Institute of Corrections of the Federal Bureau of Prisons of the US Department of Justice and they’re trying to implement this concept of green corrections throughout the United States. There is a website that I do want to say which is a website at the National Institute of Corrections specifically focusing on green corrections, www.nicic.gov\/greencorrections. I\u2019ll give that one more time now and at the end of the program, www.nicic.gov\/greencorrections. Donna, I hope I got that correct, okay. I\u2019m getting a thumbs up. All right. Where do you we go to with all of this? I mean are states really buying into this? Are states really \u2013 I mean you said the bulk of the states, Stephanie. Is this is something that they’re enthusiastically pursuing or they’re saying, oh, my gosh, here\u2019s another mandate from the governor, another mandate from the federal government although I don\u2019t think it\u2019s a mandate. I think they’re simply guiding. So as you go out and talk to hard bitten state correctional administrators when you talk to them about green corrections, what sort of reception do you get?<\/p>\n

Stephanie Davison: It really varies on the state and it depends on who you’re talking to. If you’re talking to someone who needs to save money\u2026<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Right.<\/p>\n

Stephanie Davison: \u2026then they buy into it right away.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: There you go.<\/p>\n

Stephanie Davison: They understand it. If it\u2019s an officer working the yard, it\u2019s a little different.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Okay.<\/p>\n

Stephanie Davison: And we found that buy in is really important with those individuals.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Okay.<\/p>\n

Stephanie Davison: So – and I\u2019ll let Dan speak to this a little bit more but we found it\u2019s important to have an understanding of why green is important when you’re trying to do it at a grassroots level. When you’re trying to get the officer to get on board that they have to understand the why.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Right. But they do see the obvious. I mean look, I\u2019ve been in, as I said before, some prisons where there are a lot of programming and the officers within the prisons with lots of programming are much happier human beings because the level of violence goes down and, Dan, quickly correct me if I\u2019m overselling this concept but in those institutions where there are lots of programs where they are meaningfully engaged in doing pro-social things throughout the course of the day, either GED programs or substance abuse or they\u2019re doing work-related programs, because I think this is part of correctional industries. Dan, is this part of correctional industries in the State of Washington?<\/p>\n

Dan Pacholke: No, it\u2019s actually – well, it is but I mean it\u2019s part of the Department of Corrections as a whole and certainly correctional industries is involved in sustainability activities also.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Right and we should explain what the correctional industry is. It\u2019s job programs within prisons.<\/p>\n

Dan Pacholke: Correct. I mean it really does two or three things. It mimics real world business activity inside the prison.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Right.<\/p>\n

Dan Pacholke: So they create real world jobs. On top of that they provide, you know, job training and then ultimately they produce products that are useful to state governments and certainly our department as well.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Right. But to Stephanie\u2019s point of some of the correctional staff – I mean they may not get it, they may not understand it at the very beginning but if it calms the institution and makes their day more productive and makes their day safer, I would imagine there is a certain point where they say, oh, okay, now I get this.<\/p>\n

Dan Pacholke: I think in the last five years that a lot of correctional staff that have been sold on the cost containment aspect of it.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Okay.<\/p>\n

Dan Pacholke: It does save money and it takes it out of areas where stuff like garbage or energy and it allows us to buy equipment or training or whatever the case maybe for line level staff. So on the one hand, I think they get the cost containment. On the other hand, as you\u2019ve indicated, correctional officers know that meaningful activity to an offender gets them out of the housing unit, gets them involved in something and in most cases, with few exceptions, they are less prone to act out, less prone to violate rules.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Now, the other thing that comes to mind is that all \u2013 most of the prisons that I\u2019ve been in, either in the State of Maryland or beyond the State of Maryland, are pretty stark places. I mean it\u2019s barbwired, it\u2019s concrete buildings, it\u2019s not designed to look nice. It\u2019s designed to keep inmates in the prison. The first rule of corrections is I shall not escape. So we\u2019re talking about a pretty stark environment here and I would imagine if you start using the common areas of the prison system and start landscaping them and start doing things with them that brings an environment. I mean, look, the average correctional officer has got a tough job. They are in there for 20 or 30 years. The average inmate could be in there for 10 or 20 years or longer. So they’re all in this very confined area. It\u2019s stark. It\u2019s not the prettiest of areas. I\u2019m guessing that if you green up these areas and teach inmates how to sustain them being green, I would imagine that cannot transform but it can certainly add to the pleasantness of the interactions of inmates and staff throughout the course of the day. It makes simply \u2013 makes a nicer environment.<\/p>\n

Dan Pacholke: Well, it certainly changes the culture or context of incarceration. Even in high security facilities, you can find places to create green space or you can do organic gardening or you can co-locate dog training areas next to housing units and certainly bringing dogs into living unit adds an element to it that is not typically there and will bring a calming aspect. You\u2019ll see them laughing or smiling which is not always the case. So you know part of what you’re doing in bringing nature inside prison is you’re creating more of therapeutic environment and it\u2019s not missed by the offender population and certainly, it creates a better environment for staff as well. So there\u2019s great examples out there how you can do it in very high security prisons and you know all the way down to low security prisons. There are some model 2000 prisons out there today that are doing everything in the areas of gardening and garbage sorting and composting and raising tilapia, dog training, and bicycle restoration that have highly programmatic routines you know, 100 inmates involved in activities that would be greening activities.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Bicycle restoration, that didn\u2019t even cross my mind and as a fairly avid bike rider, that intrigues me. Tell me more about bicycle restoration?<\/p>\n

Dan Pacholke: Well, once again, I mean once you adopt a green principle or sustainable principle in your mind that you want to do things that are sustainable and also that you wanted to contribute to the community, I mean, you start outreaching a little bit. We probably have four prisons that receive bicycles either from police departments or from special interest groups in the community. They bring them in. They often times contribute money. We set up an area where offenders will do bicycle restoration and then typically, they\u2019re turned back over to community and they give them to children in need. So once again, it\u2019s an opportunity to contribute to something larger than themselves. It\u2019s an opportunity to give back to children. It\u2019s an opportunity to work with community partners that are interested in the outcome that you’re going to achieve. So essentially a community begins to see you as a resource rather than a black hole behind a big wall that we just throw money into.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: That\u2019s an interesting concept. I mean that is \u2013 I\u2019ve never heard of that. I mean I\u2019ve been in part of this system for \u2013 again, for decades and bicycle restoration, what a great idea. How long has that been going on in the State of Washington?<\/p>\n

Dan Pacholke: Oh, you know, I think we started the first one probably 6 or 7 years ago.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Wow.<\/p>\n

Dan Pacholke: We probably have half a dozen prisons that are doing it today but along those same lines, it\u2019s the same thing we\u2019re going canine rescue. We have canine rescue in 12 different prisons across the state and, of course, there are many, many dog advocates and training everything up to assistance dogs. Once again, a community has a need, it\u2019s tough environmental times, they need help. They provide training to the inmates. It is a therapeutic activity and then in the end, of course, the community, you know, gets the animal and we have 100% adoption rate. So as you start going down this line about a being a good community partner, I mean there are several states and we\u2019re one of them that are doing environmental restoration projects whether it\u2019s raising the endangered Oregon spotted frog or the Taylor checkerspot butterfly or endangered puri [PH] plants that there are community partners, scientists, biologists, US Department of Fish and Wildlife that need assistance in taking care of or nurturing or growing these creatures or plants. They lack funding and, of course, prisons are full of people that have nothing but time.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Right.<\/p>\n

Dan Pacholke: Many times they are pretty talented as well so \u2013 once again, it\u2019s another way to bridge and to give inmates an opportunity to contribute and certainly give a community partner a different view inside the prison where they begin to see you as a resource that can help solve local problems.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: You know the more I talk to the two of you about this the more encouraged \u2013 the more enthusiastic I become because when you first hear the term green corrections, Dan, you’re not quite sure what it means and where we\u2019re going with this but that\u2019s true. I mean if you’re doing a lot of community restoration for inmates at the pre-release level who can safely go out, if you’re doing things like repairing bikes or taking care of wounded animals or training dogs, I mean, my heavens, how many millions of dogs are there in this country that needs some sort of intervention or they\u2019re simply going to be put down. So it sounds as if the State of Washington is being really innovative in terms of coming up with not just pro-social things for the inmate population to do but a way for the prison to contribute to the betterment of the larger community.<\/p>\n

Dan Pacholke: Yeah. I think that is part of what you\u2019ll find across the country. I mean Maryland is doing steps around Chesapeake Bay, you know and Ohio is doing stuff with the Cincinnati Zoo and I think they\u2019re about ready to start a restoration project on an endangered salamander called the hellbender and so there are different examples out there where people are beginning to engage community partners in a way that provides opportunities for inmates that are therapeutic, they teach empathy, compassion, and responsibility. At the same time, you\u2019ll have scientists or biologists or both that are interested in these projects and ultimately, you know, we have a controlled environment where we can develop protocols around some of these science restoration project so you begin to expand the kind of agenda of greening a corrections. I mean you start with something simple like cost containment, certainly moving areas to training and jobs and then, of course, you bridge into more local geographic community needs and we\u2019re certainly in need of many, many more environmental restoration projects across this country.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: It\u2019s an amazing thought. Okay, we\u2019re in the final couple of minutes of the programs Stephanie. Well, tell me more about \u2013 I\u2019m hearing all these wonderful things coming out of the State of Washington and so you’re telling me that other \u2013 and Dan did mention that Maryland is doing some stuff, Ohio is doing some stuff, does everybody get green corrections?<\/p>\n

Stephanie Davison: Not everybody\u2026<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Do they understand it?<\/p>\n

Stephanie Davison: \u2026 gets green corrections but they could.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: They could.<\/p>\n

Stephanie Davison: I would encourage people to go the NIC website\u2026<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Okay.<\/p>\n

Stephanie Davison: \u2026and look an example of \u2013 and look at a guidebook called the Greening of Corrections: Creating a Sustainable System.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Right. Okay.<\/p>\n

Stephanie Davison: We have examples from all over the country from the deep south to the progressive west and you can see how it can be done anywhere.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Okay and we are talking about, as Dan said, $3.5 million worth of savings. So if you do it for no other reason besides saving taxpayers \u2013 you know, 50 times, 50 states, and seven territories x $3.5 million that\u2019s a lot of money and I\u2019m going to give the website out one more time before the close that will give greater time for the close, www.nicic.gov\/greencorrections, www.nicic.gov\/greencorrections. Okay. We\u2019re in our final minute of the program, who wants it? Stephanie, any final wrap up?<\/p>\n

Stephanie Davison: One final word, I\u2019d like to say in the next few months, we\u2019ll be releasing a challenge on challenge.gov so that\u2026<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Really?<\/p>\n

Stephanie Davison: \u2026State Departments of Correction can share their activities with us and then we\u2019ll be able to broadcast them and share them with a larger community.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Okay.<\/p>\n

Stephanie Davison: So keep your eyes peeled for that.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: So you’re going to pit one state against the other and see who\u2019s doing the best, right?<\/p>\n

Stephanie Davison: A little bit. We want the examples of the best work that\u2019s being done.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: And, obviously, some of the best work that\u2019s being done is being done by the Washington Department of Corrections. So, Dan, how\u2019s it feel to be known for something else besides the day-to-day grind of corrections? I mean the people come to you and say, hey, tell me more about green corrections in the State of Washington.<\/p>\n

Dan Pacholke: Well, I think it\u2019s – on one hand, it\u2019s fun. I mean it is in activity that started kind of on the margin and has worked its way more to the center of the plate. It\u2019s really encouraging for us, I supposed all of us, just to see more growth in the area of people like Stephanie, you know NIC, other states like Maryland, Ohio, and Oregon and California. I mean there\u2019s lots of people doing different activities out there so, you know, one of these days, we\u2019re going to see a new prison design that\u2019s based on sustainable principles that articulates or identifies everything that we\u2019re talking about here. So I\u2019m just interested in seeing more best practice come of it and learning from others and hopefully continuing to push this in a way that\u2019s both economically beneficial as well as humanizing corrections and making the operations of prison safer.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Dan, you\u2019ve got the final word. Ladies and gentlemen, we\u2019re doing a show today- have done a show today on green corrections produced by the National Institute of Corrections. Our guests today have been Dan Pacholke, assistant secretary of the State of Washington Department of Corrections; Stephanie Davison, she is a senior program officer with FHI360, www.fhi360.org. Ladies and gentlemen this is DC Public Safety. We appreciate your calls, letters, concepts, criticisms, and please yourselves a very, very pleasant day.<\/p>\n

[Audio Ends]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Welcome to \u201cDC Public Safety\u201d \u2013 Radio and television shows, blog and transcripts on crime, criminal offenders and the criminal justice system. The portal site for \u201cDC Public Safety\u201d is http:\/\/media.csosa.gov. Radio Program available at http:\/\/media.csosa.gov\/podcast\/audio\/2013\/04\/green-corrections-impact-on-cost-savings-and-reentry-national-institute-of-corrections-dc-public-safety\/ [Audio Begins] Len Sipes: From the nation\u2019s capital this is DC Public Safety. I\u2019m your host, Leonard Sipes. We […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"nf_dc_page":"","_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[23,53,54,9,10,15,18,21],"tags":[165,275,178,32,276],"class_list":["post-1021","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-audiopodcast","category-budget-issues","category-corrections-prisons","category-education","category-employment","category-interviewswithpolicymakers","category-reentry","category-whatworks","tag-corrections","tag-employment","tag-green-corrections","tag-prison","tag-reentry","entry"],"aioseo_notices":[],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","jetpack_shortlink":"https:\/\/wp.me\/pBoKk-gt","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack_likes_enabled":true,"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/media.csosa.gov\/podcast\/transcripts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1021","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/media.csosa.gov\/podcast\/transcripts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/media.csosa.gov\/podcast\/transcripts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/media.csosa.gov\/podcast\/transcripts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/media.csosa.gov\/podcast\/transcripts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=1021"}],"version-history":[{"count":3,"href":"https:\/\/media.csosa.gov\/podcast\/transcripts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1021\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":1492,"href":"https:\/\/media.csosa.gov\/podcast\/transcripts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1021\/revisions\/1492"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/media.csosa.gov\/podcast\/transcripts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=1021"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/media.csosa.gov\/podcast\/transcripts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=1021"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/media.csosa.gov\/podcast\/transcripts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=1021"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}