Welcome to \u201cDC Public Safety\u201d \u2013 Radio and television shows, blog and transcripts on crime, criminal offenders and the criminal justice system.<\/p>\n

The portal site for \u201cDC Public Safety\u201d is http:\/\/media.csosa.gov<\/a>.<\/p>\n

Radio Program available at http:\/\/media.csosa.gov\/podcast\/audio\/2013\/03\/supervising-and-treating-mentally-ill-offenders-dc-public-safety-radio\/<\/a><\/p>\n

[Audio Begins]<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: From the nation\u2019s capital, this is DC Public Safety. I\u2019m your host, Leonard Sipes. Ladies and gentleman, our show today is on the supervision and treatment of mental health offenders. We, within the Court Services and Offender Supervision Agency, we say that 37% of our offenders have had contact with mental health providers or claim a mental health issue. Reports from the Department of Justice several years ago, they suggest a self-report figure of over 50%. To discuss this emerging issue within the Court Services and Offender Supervision Agency and throughout the country, we have three guests today. We have Ubux Hussen, she is the Mental Health Program Administrator; a Community Supervision Officer \u2013 Supervisory Community Supervision Officer Marcia Davis; and Supervisory Community Supervision Officer Robert Evans. And to Ubux and Marcia and to Robert, welcome to DC Public Safety.<\/p>\n

Female: Thank you, Leonard, for inviting us.<\/p>\n

Female: Thank you.<\/p>\n

Robert Evans: Thank you.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: All right. You know this is an extraordinarily important topic for us. It really is and it\u2019s an extraordinarily important topic for every court, every parole commission, every parole and probation agency throughout the United States. It really is an emerging issue because it seems to \u2013 it seems to me that the numbers increase \u2013 continuously increase. Every time I read a piece of national research or local research, they tell me that they\u2019re sort of astounded by the high numbers of people who have had contact with mental health providers and who claim to have a mental background. Like I said, there was a Department of Justice report that suggested that over 50% of the individuals who they interviewed caught up in the criminal justice system; they claimed to have a mental health problem or had contact with a mental health system in the past. So, Ubux, the first question is going to you. How many people out of the 15,000 individuals that we have on supervision on any given day, both parolees and probationers, how many are involved in our mental health unit?<\/p>\n

Ubux Hussen: In our mental health unit, approximately 2068\u2026<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: That\u2019s a lot of people.<\/p>\n

Ubux Hussen: It is a lot of people spread across six or seven mental health men and women\u2019s teams. The observation you made about the number of people \u2013 you know, back in the \u201970s and \u201980s, we did this deinstitutionalization from state mental health hospitals and a lot of those people have cycled through both state, federal, and local jails and prisons which really have become very innovative in mental health service delivery because of the need of the people under their care. So there are a lot more people who probably qualify than the 2068\u2026<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Right.<\/p>\n

Ubux Hussen: \u2026who are currently assigned to our branch. So I\u2019ll stop there.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Well, that is an important piece of context for people to understand that one time we had within this country a fairly extensive community-based and hospital-based mental health system. They went through a process of deinstitutionalization, I think, back in the 1970s and at one time, there were thousands of people caught up in community care and in terms of intuitional care, but they\u2019ve taken down most of those institutions from various states and they did not support the community component. So, in essence, we\u2019ve heard individuals suggest that the criminal justice system is now the de facto provider of mental health services to a lot of people caught up who are in the system who are mentally ill and that\u2019s shocking. You know, to me, it\u2019s shocking. Marcia, who gets to be on our mental health unit? Describe that kind of person.<\/p>\n

Marcia Davis: Okay. So the individuals who come to supervision come to us by way of the United States Parole Commission after they have been placed on supervisory list of parole or through the DC Court System after being placed on probation.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Uh huh.<\/p>\n

Marcia Davis: And in most cases, they\u2019ve been either court ordered or ordered by the USPC to either undergo a mental health assessment, participate in mental health treatment, or be supervised by the mental health unit.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Okay. Now, so they come either from the courts or they come from the US Parole System.<\/p>\n

Marcia Davis: Right.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Can a community supervision officer– what most people throughout the country call parole and probation agents, can a community supervision officer here within Court Services and Offender Supervision Agency can they mandate that a person receive an evaluation? Robert?<\/p>\n

Robert Evans: Well, not necessarily mandate but one thing that is important to know is that we kind of train our staff to be very observant. We train them to have a listening ear and also be observant of when someone is experiencing some sort of breakdown or issue. And so what they\u2019ll make \u2013 what they\u2019ll do is make a recommendation and they will make a referral. So they will refer to our mental health program administrator to review a situation, most likely try to get this person a mental health assessment so that we can kind of gauge what this person is going through. So anybody who has a mental health assessment and assessment basically says that they have a current issue they\u2019re dealing with, a mental health diagnosis, then we\u2019ll take another look at that to see if they qualify for our unit.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Well, from the beginning of the show, I do want to establish two things: a) Because an individual has a mental health issue does not mean that they\u2019re going to be part of the criminal justice system and I want to make that abundantly clear.<\/p>\n

Ubux Hussen: Correct.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: There are endless millions of people floating throughout the United States, throughout the world, who have mental health condition who never come into contact with the criminal justice system. However, if you are schizophrenic, if you have one of dozens of mental health diagnosis, if you are depressed in some ways that does correlate, however, with substance use that does correlate, however, with a contact with the criminal justice system. Did I phrase it correctly, Ubux?<\/p>\n

Ubux Hussen: Absolutely. There also other environmental or psychosocial factors – poverty, low educational level, a fragile limited or non-existent family or social support network.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Right.<\/p>\n

Ubux Hussen: In terms of poverty, access to health insurance whether you\u2019re able to get the medication that allows you to have stability in your life so that you\u2019re not engaging in criminal activity. So there\u2019s both the diagnosis and then there is what\u2019s called the ecology of the person\u2019s life.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Okay.<\/p>\n

Ubux Hussen: So who else is in your life and what else is in your life that serves as a prosocial stabilizing factor?<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: But we have to establish as well in terms of a baseline for this discussion people on parole and probation supervision both within Washington DC and throughout the country. It applies equally across the board. They come often with substance abuse backgrounds.<\/p>\n

Ubux Hussen: Correct.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: They come often with multiple contacts with the criminal justice system.<\/p>\n

Ubux Hussen: Correct.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: They come often with tough upbringings, oftentimes single parent family, often time I\u2019ve heard dozens and dozens and dozens of people caught up in the criminal justice system describe the fact that they raised themselves, that they were basically on their own, that they basically got up, fed themselves, and took themselves to school. Individuals caught up in the criminal justice system have dozens of disadvantages. Most of the female offenders that we have do things, number one, the large number have children so it\u2019s not just taking care of themselves as they come out of the prison system. Somehow someway they want to reunite with their children. My heavens, when you start stacking deck \u2013 when you start considering all the different things that an individual caught up in the criminal justice system has to deal with and you throw mental health issues on top of all those things, it becomes scary. It becomes what some people have claimed almost to be a school to prison pipeline because they\u2019re saying how do you overcome all those obstacles?<\/p>\n

Robert Evans: Right.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Anybody feel to comment from a mental health point of view?<\/p>\n

Robert Evans: Yeah. I\u2019m glad you\u2019ve mentioned that because you know we \u2013 we throw the word mental health around and it\u2019s kind of \u2013 there\u2019s a stigma that comes along that word just mental health.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Right.<\/p>\n

Robert Evans: And we need to be clear that everybody has mental health. If you have a brain, you know. So everybody has health that they\u2019re dealing with and you know, issues face us all. If you have death in the family, if you are struggling in life, so all these things that people have come along with, they deal with them differently.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Right.<\/p>\n

Robert Evans: You know and how do they \u2013 how do they deal with it. And so, one thing that we have to mention is that \u2013 especially here in DC, there are services that people can get\u2026<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Right.<\/p>\n

Robert Evans: \u2026as a result of having \u201cmental health issue\u201d and so that can also add to why people are getting into this system \u2013 the mental health system because, for example, you have people that are in \u2013 who are locked up and once they realize that they can get special treatment for being in mental health now that they want to fake issues. So there\u2019s another, you know, a sort of layer of the whole mental thing that we should visit because it\u2019s more than just you know people have in \u201cmental health issue.\u201d It\u2019s a huge sort of box that they can be opened up. You know, people can get SSI checks, people kind of once they get a diagnosis they kind of rely on at some time.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Okay. So it\u2019s a fairly complex issue.<\/p>\n

Robert Evans: It\u2019s very complex.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: All right. Let\u2019s start from the beginning then now that we\u2019ve laid this groundwork. So a person either comes from the courts or comes from the parole commission with a mandate that we evaluate them for mental health services. What happens when we receive that piece of paper?<\/p>\n

Marcia Davis: And then let me also add because we kind of touched on it a little bit but I want to add sometimes, like you said, people go to general supervision and while they\u2019re in general supervision, the CSO may notice that there\u2019s some things that may not be totally right with this person.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Right.<\/p>\n

Marcia Davis: So they will refer them for an assessment and once they get assessed, they could be deemed appropriate for the mental health unit and be transferred over.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Okay. Okay. What happens when that happens? Either through the CSO in general supervision or the parole commission or the courts? So somebody says I think this person has an issue, what happens?<\/p>\n

Ubux Hussen: Usually, either through a supervisor or the actual CSO, I will receive an e-mail\u2026<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Okay.<\/p>\n

Ubux Hussen: \u2026with an attached mental health assessment.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Right.<\/p>\n

Ubux Hussen: That has to be current and not older than 12 months.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Okay.<\/p>\n

Ubux Hussen: We want the most current information about the person. That assessment is reviewed for whether the person has what mental health clinicians call a severe and persistent mental illness.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Okay.<\/p>\n

Ubux Hussen: And so that\u2019s your schizophrenias, that\u2019s your bipolar disorder, etcetera.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Right. Right.<\/p>\n

Ubux Hussen: We also, however, supervised other people who have developmental delays, who are mild to moderately what used to be called mentally retarded. We now have a \u2013 I\u2019m noticing a trend as everybody is getting older, we have an older population of supervisees who have age-related cognitive deficits and so it is in just do they have a serious mental illness, it\u2019s what else is going on that might impede their successful supervision.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Okay, fair enough. But we get an evaluation from the Federal Bureau of Prisons.<\/p>\n

Ubux Hussen: Yup.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: We get an evaluation from a mental health clinic. Do we do our own evaluations?<\/p>\n

Ubux Hussen: Yes, sometimes.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Okay. So who does those evaluations?<\/p>\n

Ubux Hussen: We have consultants that we contract with.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Right.<\/p>\n

Ubux Hussen: One of the things in the DC area that\u2019s really hard to get is a psychological evaluation.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Right.<\/p>\n

Ubux Hussen: And so the agency pays for those. If the information is conflicting, if it\u2019s inadequate, if somebody for example has experienced trauma to the head while they\u2019ve been in the community and we just need more information, we will pay for those services for them to get this assessment.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Okay. So CSOSA does their own evaluations when necessary.<\/p>\n

Ubux Hussen: Yes, that\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Okay.<\/p>\n

Marcia Davis: And we also use the Department of Mental Health.<\/p>\n

Ubux Hussen: Yes.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Right.<\/p>\n

Marcia Davis: The DC Department of Mental Health Agency does assessments, too.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Okay. So the person comes in, we diagnose them, we figure out on what level of deficiency they have and then they\u2019re placed in the mental health unit with well over 2000 people under supervision. Right?<\/p>\n

Ubux Hussen: That\u2019s correct.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Okay. So what happens at that point? So you get this person, not only does he have to make restitution, not only does he have to get a job, not only does he have to get his GED, not only does he have to get his plumbing certificate, not only does he have to obey all law\u2026<\/p>\n

Ubux Hussen: Right.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: \u2026he now has to go through some sort of intervention in terms of his mental health problem and I\u2019m assuming that that ranges in terms of the degree of severity of the mental health problem, right?<\/p>\n

Robert Evans: Correct.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Okay, talk to me about that.<\/p>\n

Robert Evans: So, basically, the guy comes from my unit and he\u2019s assigned to community supervision officer to supervise him. Now, this supervision officer has been trained to make sure that this person is connected with the mental health services. They\u2019re going to make sure that they connect either for Core Service Agency. This person is going to be connected with a case manager or a therapist if necessary depending on the person\u2019s need. Once they go to that Core Service Agency, the agency would do an intake and they\u2019ll see what this person needs and so, now, this officer needs to follow up with the case manager or whoever they\u2019re connected with\u2026<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Okay.<\/p>\n

Robert Evans: \u2026to be sure that they\u2019re following through with that.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: And that connection could be authorities from the District of Columbia. That connection could be with the Veterans Administration.<\/p>\n

Robert Evans: Correct.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: That connection could be with lots of different agencies. So okay.<\/p>\n

Marcia Davis: Correct. Private organization\u2026<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Private organizations. It could be a private counselor. Now, but do all of them get the counseling they need? I mean, you know, all we hear are budget cuts, budget cuts, budget cuts and my guess is that not everybody is going to be getting counseling \u2013 not everybody is getting counseling, not everybody is going to get \u201ctherapy.\u201d My guess is that people on the high end of the spectrum with serious mental health issues such as bipolarism or schizophrenic \u2013 or being a schizophrenic, they will get it and the people at the lower end don\u2019t. Am I right or wrong?<\/p>\n

Robert Evans: Well, you\u2019re right. You\u2019re right. In DC especially, you know, people are overwhelmed with clients. You know, the case mangers that we deal with have extremely high case loads so they\u2019re trying to do the best they can to make sure that they meet these individual\u2019s needs. Bu in most cases, the people that need the intensive service, what they\u2019ll do is get connected with what was called the ACT team, which is Assertive Community Treatment.<\/p>\n

Marcia Davis: Assertive Community Treatment.<\/p>\n

Robert Evans: Right.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Okay.<\/p>\n

Robert Evans: So this ACT team is going to be assigned to this client who has a very severe issue.<\/p>\n

Marcia Davis: A severe need.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: A severe need, right.<\/p>\n

Robert Evans: And so what that would do is get this person more specialized treatment but even in those cases, it\u2019s very difficult. The difficulty that we face is we have to make sure that this person is following through with the recommendation but we can\u2019t hold their hand, we can\u2019t take them to treatment, we can\u2019t pick him up from their home and take them to the case manager so \u2013<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: But in many cases \u2013 and that I want to get to this right after the break \u2013 in many cases, we are the principal pro-social entity in that person\u2019s life which I find astounding\u2026<\/p>\n

Ubux Hussen: Correct.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: \u2026in terms of doing previous radio programs about this topic.<\/p>\n

Ubux Hussen: Yes.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Ladies and gentleman, we\u2019re talking to Ubux Hussen. She is the Mental Health Program Administrator. We\u2019re talking to Marcia Davis and Robert Evans. They\u2019re both Supervisory Community Supervision Officers with my agency, Court Services and Offender Supervision Agency, here in Washington DC. We are a federal independent agency offering parole and probation services to the great city of Washington DC. Our website is www.csosa.gov, www.csosa.gov. Talking about the issue of mental health and how parole and probation agencies treat mental health problems and again getting back to the issue that I\u2019ve brought up right before the break that for so many individuals under supervision, we are, in many cases, the sole stabilizing pro-social force in their life, coming into contact with them and asking them: a) Are you taking your medication?; b) Are you going to the counseling clinic but we have liaisons, we know whether or not they\u2019re complying with this counseling clinics; and c) To sit with that individual and we\u2019re not therapist\u2026<\/p>\n

Ubux Hussen: Right.<\/p>\n

Robert Evans: Right.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: We\u2019re not therapists but we do talk with that individual and try to help that individual through the various crises of their lives, and d) often times when they find themselves in crisis, we\u2019re the first people that they turn to. So I talk to be all that.<\/p>\n

Marcia Davis: Okay. So what we\u2019re seeing now with the co-service agencies is that collaborations work tremendously. In the female unit, we have a group of women with unique needs. When we look at the pathways to crime for our women, these are women who have a history of childhood victimization. They\u2019ve been \u2013<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Childhood sexual assault.<\/p>\n

Marcia Davis: Right. They\u2019ve also been sexually assaulted as adults. They have a history of trauma. They have serious chronic mental illnesses. They are homeless.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Yes.<\/p>\n

Marcia Davis: They have low education, low appointment.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Right.<\/p>\n

Marcia Davis: They\u2019ve been separated from their children. Their self-esteem is low.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Right.<\/p>\n

Marcia Davis: But with this population, the collaborations between the different agencies, with CSOSA, with the Core Service Agency, with the treatment staff, with the faith-based mentoring staff. If we come together and we work as one, we can see how those collaborations work. Just yesterday, we had a case, a high-risk offender who has a serious mental illness. She is 7-1\/5 months pregnant. She is using substances and we had a team, a multidisciplinary staff, and where we had her Core Service Agency case manager, we had our mental health administrator, Ms. Ubux, we had the CSO, we had the individual from our central intervention team who provides substance abuse treatment, and we had our mental health treatment specialist and together, we came up with a plan to help this individual. So we see as \u2013 if we work together it\u2019s so much better than each entity trying to do it alone in this \u2013<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Right.<\/p>\n

Marcia Davis: It takes away from the offender\u2019s ability to play one agency against the next because working together we come up with one plan. We\u2019re all on one co-work and it just works out better for everyone involved.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: I do want to point out to our audience that we do have a variety of special emphases. Am I correct? Saying that am I grammatically correct in terms of three groups. Number one, we\u2019ve reorganized around women offenders, we\u2019ve reorganized around high-risks offenders and now, we\u2019re in the process of reorganizing around young adult offenders.<\/p>\n

Ubux Hussen: Correct.<\/p>\n

Marcia Davis: Right.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: And, we\u2019re finding mental health problems in all three groups.<\/p>\n

Ubux Hussen: Correct.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: And with \u2013 especially with the high-risk offenders and especially the young adult offenders we\u2019re finding real problems in that group with both recidivism and mental health problems. We have to prioritize\u2026<\/p>\n

Ubux Hussen: Right.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: \u2026what it this we do to the highest risk offender. Correct?<\/p>\n

Ubux Hussen: Right.<\/p>\n

Robert Evans: Yeah, absolutely. I wanted to also go back to your point because I think it\u2019s really important to really highlight that even in my serious case, her community supervision officer was the one that orchestrated all of that.<\/p>\n

Marcia Davis: Yes, because –<\/p>\n

Robert Evans: Because, you know, when the offender comes home, they\u2019re reporting to the CSO and the CSO is between them and the releasing authority and that\u2019s the freedom right there. So, now, it\u2019s up to that CSO will be the one that can try to connect\u2026<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Right.<\/p>\n

Robert Evans: \u2026with all these other people .<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Right.<\/p>\n

Robert Evans: And so, like you said, that community supervision officer is a lifeline\u2026<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Right.<\/p>\n

Robert Evans: \u2026in most cases.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Well, I have talked to a wide variety of people in going on 10 years now with the core services and the federal supervision agency, they\u2019ve been \u2013 women offenders, Marcia, you and I have talked and the people under supervision have talked and I\u2019ve talked to more than just a couple who are on the mental health program and they basically say, you know, Mr. Sipes, if it wasn\u2019t for that CSO, again, community supervision officer, I don\u2019t know where I\u2019d be.<\/p>\n

Robert Evans: Right.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: He\u2019s the one \u2013 she\u2019s the one who constantly says, are you taking your medication, show me your medications, show me that you have your prescription in hand, show me that you\u2019re not abusing this drug, are you going to counseling, or are you hooking up with your faith-based mentor, where are you on your life. And that provides a lifeline. Again, I\u2019m making the same point twice but I do want to reemphasize it. The employees of this organization become sometimes the lifeline\u2026<\/p>\n

Ubux Hussen: Yes.<\/p>\n

Robert Evans: Right.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: \u2026in the life of that individual and becomes the major difference as to whether or not that person succeeds or does not succeed.<\/p>\n

Robert Evans: Right. And that\u2019s gonna be really heightened when you\u2019re talking about the young population because this is a population who\u2019s in a predicament and most likely because their family may not be there\u2026<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Right.<\/p>\n

Robert Evans: \u2026or they have turned their back on them.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Right.<\/p>\n

Robert Evans: So, now, you have somebody who is playing that role in addition to authority but now we have the sort of kind of train you up, you know, and teach you to be an adult. You know, so that\u2026<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: It\u2019s cognitive behavioral therapy, restructuring how they think about things in life.<\/p>\n

Robert Evans: It\u2019s all [indiscernible]<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Do we do group therapy with some individuals in the mental health unit?<\/p>\n

Ubux Hussen: We do. There are \u2013 we have two types of groups. We have mental health intervention groups, for example, where Marcia is located. There is a trauma group that targets women and then we do what are called sanctions groups which is for technical violations of your supervision agreement.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Right.<\/p>\n

Ubux Hussen: We\u2019re now restructuring ourselves because at the base of everything \u2013 what you were saying earlier about people raising themselves and so forth \u2013 is underlying trauma that hasn\u2019t been addressed.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Right.<\/p>\n

Ubux Hussen: And so we\u2019re reconfiguring the group so that we\u2019re offering more treatment-oriented groups and fewer sanctions groups.<\/p>\n

Robert Evans: Right.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: You know, it\u2019s interesting, the average person listening to this program especially if they are familiar with their parole and probation agency and people are more than welcome to write me, leonardsipes@csosa.gov, leonard.sipes. Call me, send with a nasty letter, do what they will but what we\u2019re talking about is unrecognizable to them because: a) we have a ratio where we come in of community supervision officers, a lot of parole and probation agents and people under supervision of somewhere in about ballpark of 50:1. For mental health teams, it\u2019s less than that but we come into contact with individuals at higher levels of supervision at least four to eight times a month, two of those have to be community contacts and, at the same time, they have all the mental health contacts. Most parole and probation agents in this country, you know, at the highest levels, come into contact with that individual two times a month and when it comes to mental health services, they say go to your mental health clinic and report in. That\u2019s it. That\u2019s most jurisdictions\u2019 response to people with mental health problems. What we do here at CSOSA as cumbersome as it is at times and as frustrating is at times is generally leaps and bounce better than most parole and probation agencies. Now, am I right or wrong?<\/p>\n

Robert Evans: You\u2019re absolutely correct and it\u2019s unacceptable if we see anything less.<\/p>\n

Marcia Davis: Right.<\/p>\n

Robert Evans: You know, because, you know, the bottom line is the consumer. We\u2019re thinking about the offender, you know. We say that but really we\u2019re looking at them like the customer and our job is to assist then through the process. We\u2019re trying to help them get the supervision so that they don\u2019t come back.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Well, we\u2019re trying to protect public safety.<\/p>\n

Robert Evans: Exactly.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: If we get them through supervision that means they\u2019re not out there committing crimes.<\/p>\n

Robert Evans: Exactly.<\/p>\n

Ubux Hussen: Correct.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: It means they\u2019re not a burden to society.<\/p>\n

Ubux Hussen: Correct.<\/p>\n

Marcia Davis: Right.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: That means they\u2019re no longer tax burdens and they\u2019re tax payers.<\/p>\n

Robert Evans: Exactly.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: So a lot of people have a lot of investment in making sure that that person succeeds under supervision including us.<\/p>\n

Ubux Hussen: Right.<\/p>\n

Robert Evans: Absolutely.<\/p>\n

Ubux Hussen: Right. Not the least of which the one million children whose parents\u2026<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Yes.<\/p>\n

Ubux Hussen: \u2026at various times are involved with criminal justice systems. So it\u2019s really in societies enlightened self-interest at some point, budgets are finite, and people have to come home and \u2013<\/p>\n

Robert Evans: Right.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: I\u2019m sorry. Finite and declining.<\/p>\n

Ubux Hussen: Finite and declining and so people have to come home and we have to be able to, in terms of those of us charged with public safety, be creative in identifying the reasons for how you got involved in the criminal justice system.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Okay. But you say creative and so many of us in the criminal justice system, people sitting all throughout the country, listening to this program going creative shamative [PH]. It takes money. It takes resources to do this and \u2013 and that\u2019s \u2013 that\u2019s where the rubber meets the road.<\/p>\n

Ubux Hussen: Yes.<\/p>\n

Robert Evans: I would say that\u2019s false. I would say that, you know, when we talk about being creative, we\u2019re talking about being evidence-based and what the evidence says is that you don\u2019t need money to show empathy.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Right.<\/p>\n

Robert Evans: And so \u2013 and that is what our unit is all about. You know, we train people to be able to build a rapport. A big huge part that you were talking about is this person sitting in front of me has to build trust.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Right.<\/p>\n

Robert Evans: So we\u2019re all about trying to make a connection with this person so that this person will respond to what we\u2019re trying to put in place for them to be successful.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: But this is a difficult population to supervise because I\u2019ve did what you\u2019ve done with your lifetime and they come out of the prison system in many cases and I do note that 65% of our people on our supervision are probationers, not coming out of the prison, but those who would come out of the prison have \u2013 what I say a chip on their shoulder the size of Montana.<\/p>\n

Robert Evans: Big time.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: And you add mental health to that. You\u2019re breaking through that barrier and so to the point you can get them to point \u2013 that person to the point where you can help them is a monumentally difficult task. How you break through that barrier?<\/p>\n

Robert Evans: You don\u2019t personalize it. The biggest thing that I\u2019ve learned is to not to personalize it, you know. Just to give you a real life example, a young guy, you know, they \u2013 like you said, the chip on your shoulder, I\u2019m seeing that more and more with the young population.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Yep.<\/p>\n

Robert Evans: He comes in. He\u2019s cussing out his officer. This officer called me. Mr. Evans needs you. He came to the cubicle. He\u2019s cussing me out.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Right.<\/p>\n

Robert Evans: So he said he was done. I let him walk out. Ten minutes later, he came back.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Uh-huh.<\/p>\n

Robert Evans: And he had a different attitude. Now, a typical person may have taken it personal, may have said, you know, what? You walked out, we\u2019re done. But we have to not personalize that process and we have to realize that he is here, we\u2019ve got a body to work with, and let\u2019s rock and roll.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: That is I think the only way it can be done in terms of breaking through. If we do not break through their lives as individuals, we might as well just give it up. We might as well just send them back to prison.<\/p>\n

Robert Evans: Right.<\/p>\n

Marcia Davis: Now, when it comes –<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: Go ahead, either one. We have one minute left.<\/p>\n

Marcia Davis: When it comes to female unit, the females appreciate the programs that we have developed on the female unit that are geared and unique to addressing their needs. So they\u2019re participating in these programs and they\u2019re saying that, okay, finally, our needs are being addressed because, for so many years, their needs were never addressed and they haven\u2019t been able to address the issues that they need to address in order to stop the cycle. So just then seeing that we\u2019ve taken the time to develop these programs that were develop for \u2013 specifically for females, they appreciate that and they see the direction and appreciate the direction at the agency is doing.<\/p>\n

Len Sipes: And I am \u2013 never in my 42 years in the criminal justice system have I been as impressed with anything as impressed as I am with the women\u2019s unit and the fact that they come out with so many strikes against them but yet, at the same time, they succeed in greater numbers than I would ever expect and considering the efficiencies that they have to deal with. All of you, who deal with the female population, should be congratulated and all of you who deal with the mental health population should be congratulated. Ladies and gentleman, this is DC Public Safety. I am your host, Leonard Sipes. Our guests today have been Ubux Hussen, she is the Mental Health Program Administrator; Marcia Davis and Robert Evans, they\u2019re both Supervisory Community Supervision Officers. Ladies and gentleman, again, DC Public Safety. We appreciate your letters. We appreciate your e-mails. We appreciate your phone calls and all of the suggestions in terms of new shows, even criticisms, and we want everybody to have themselves a very, very pleasant day.<\/p>\n

[Audio Ends]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Welcome to \u201cDC Public Safety\u201d \u2013 Radio and television shows, blog and transcripts on crime, criminal offenders and the criminal justice system. The portal site for \u201cDC Public Safety\u201d is http:\/\/media.csosa.gov. Radio Program available at http:\/\/media.csosa.gov\/podcast\/audio\/2013\/03\/supervising-and-treating-mentally-ill-offenders-dc-public-safety-radio\/ [Audio Begins] Len Sipes: From the nation\u2019s capital, this is DC Public Safety. I\u2019m your host, Leonard Sipes. Ladies […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"nf_dc_page":"","_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[3,23,16,17,52,18,21],"tags":[105,177,30,277],"class_list":["post-1018","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-angermanagement","category-audiopodcast","category-interviewswithstaff","category-mentalhealth","category-parole-and-probation","category-reentry","category-whatworks","tag-mental-health","tag-mentally-ill","tag-parole","tag-probation","entry"],"aioseo_notices":[],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","jetpack_shortlink":"https:\/\/wp.me\/pBoKk-gq","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack_likes_enabled":true,"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/media.csosa.gov\/podcast\/transcripts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1018","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/media.csosa.gov\/podcast\/transcripts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/media.csosa.gov\/podcast\/transcripts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/media.csosa.gov\/podcast\/transcripts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/media.csosa.gov\/podcast\/transcripts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=1018"}],"version-history":[{"count":2,"href":"https:\/\/media.csosa.gov\/podcast\/transcripts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1018\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":1020,"href":"https:\/\/media.csosa.gov\/podcast\/transcripts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1018\/revisions\/1020"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/media.csosa.gov\/podcast\/transcripts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=1018"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/media.csosa.gov\/podcast\/transcripts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=1018"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/media.csosa.gov\/podcast\/transcripts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=1018"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}